Murders and Shootings

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DeadAgain!?_sl

shitlord
451
2
ZZeris maybe as a "personal use" drug user you may not necessarily understand the BIG correlation between drugs and guns - they go hand in hand.

Making shit illegal does not make it "go away", drugs, prostitution, sports gambling, dog fights - it's all still out there and the people that want to indulge will indulge.

Problem is everyone bitches about everyone else not wanting to have an "intelligent discussion" but they fail to put aside their own ideology's to have the discussion. Some of the discussions I see here about religion, drugs, guns, politics, police and you wonder why we have so "many" crazy people. Do you really expect an intelligent conversation with people who post anonymously and without repercussion?
 
S

Simas_sl

shitlord
1,196
5
Kreugen_sl said:
If it was your intention to kill a bunch of 6 year olds with a knife, do you think ensuring that they died would be difficult thing to accomplish?
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If your intention was to kill as many 6 years olds as possible, would you use a knife or a gun?

If you had a choice, would you rather be stabbed or shot?

The whole knife thing is ridiculous. Guns are more efficient tools. Cops carry guns. Soldiers carry guns. Not knives.
 
Azrayne

Azrayne

Irenicus did nothing wrong
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ZZeris maybe as a "personal use" drug user you may not necessarily understand the BIG correlation between drugs and guns - they go hand in hand.
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Only because of the combination of horrible socioeconomic circumstances and prohibition creating a black market. And even then only at certain stages of the distribution chain.
 
earthfell

earthfell

Golden Knight of the Realm
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The common denominator is mental health and a poor infrastructure for social work. Firearm technology + corporate media allows untreated mental issues to explode in brilliant fashion. Gun control, while incredibly difficult due to the NRA, is the most simplistic way of dealing with the problem. Nobody wants to fund counseling services and social workers. People who want to go into that line of work even get laughed at.
 
TrollfaceDeux

TrollfaceDeux

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our university's counseling service is so fucking laughable that I have hard time using it sometimes. The doctor basically asked me "What kind of medicine do you think you need?" I couldn't believe it. A fucking doctor asking me what I need. And he comes every six month. Another service was local health clinic. the psychiatrist comes every 3 month and he is just there to prescribe drugs. This is Canada. Its so fucking pathetic..
 
fanaskin

fanaskin

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earthfell_sl said:
The common denominator is mental health and a poor infrastructure for social work. Firearm technology + corporate media allows untreated mental issues to explode in brilliant fashion. Gun control, while incredibly difficult due to the NRA, is the most simplistic way of dealing with the problem. Nobody wants to fund counseling services and social workers. People who want to go into that line of work even get laughed at.
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I think the real implication is that well to do white children are somehow more sacred than the rest of the wreched masses who die in america like the 30 million homeless, and not a tear is shed, or say the millions of indians we massacre and then mock on thanksgiving day, like they thank the day they met the conquistadors.
 
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DeadAgain!?_sl

shitlord
451
2
Azrayne_sl said:
Only because of the combination of horrible socioeconomic circumstances and prohibition creating a black market. And even then only at certain stages of the distribution chain.
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Because if ALL drugs were to be made legal, there would be no need to still violently fight over territory and $? It would be the same as it is now minus the LE action. Take off the rose colored glasses and realize certain drugs may be harmless but there's a lot of blood associated with getting them from point A to point B - legal or not. Cartels will not sit idly by as their profits shrink because other people are moving into their territory.

it's a multi front war, taking out enforcement is just one front shutting down.
 
F

Flunklesnarkin_sl

shitlord
922
3
It's not gun ownership that's the problem, it's the people who own the guns.

Everybody is blaming the gun for this when it was the person who owned the gun who is to blame. The owner of the gun in this shooting and the mall shooting didn't secure their shit. Somebody else ended up taking it and using it in the shootings.

I'm all for laws mandating responsible gun ownership with penalties and everything else to go along with it. Owning something dangerous is fine as long as you are responsible. It really is a shame that the government has to enforce responsibility but such is life.

What others here were trying to point out is that while guns are the superior killing tool to knives or other weapons, taking them away doesn't solve the problem of crazy people. What happens when nut cases start driving cars up on crowded sidewalks a whole lot, do we take away cars?
 
mkopec

mkopec

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DeadAgain!?_sl said:
Because if ALL drugs were to be made legal, there would be no need to still violently fight over territory and $? It would be the same as it is now minus the LE action. Take off the rose colored glasses and realize certain drugs may be harmless but there's a lot of blood associated with getting them from point A to point B - legal or not. Cartels will not sit idly by as their profits shrink because other people are moving into their territory.

it's a multi front war, taking out enforcement is just one front shutting down.
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Yeah I agree that this would go a long way to solve the voilence problem, but think about this. What do you think all the drug dealers, gang members, the killers do when drugs were to be made legal? Get full time jobs at the local factory or McDonalds?
 
zzeris

zzeris

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I agree there are many people that fit the profile but should it be easy for them to get guns? Should every mental case have free reign because they havent went 'school shopping'? I know if you want to kill you can but our gun proliferation society is based off beliefs handed down over the years. 60% of americans were for gun control in 1963. Obviously the belief system has changed but some things should be standard and mostly are. There are over 67,000 automatic weapons owned in this country and not one has been used for a crime. Most hardcore gun enthusiasts are extremely educated and careful with gun use. Doesn't mean there cant be discussion on changes that could help this problem.

Deadagain, every drug user i've known didnt need a glock beside them to light it up. So, obviously using drugs is not needed for usage. Using violence to obtain a goal? Sure, criminals do that or did you not notice my link to our prison population? Drug dealers use weapons to protect something valuable like everyone else does with their weapons. The gun is a means to an end and since they are used to obtain many things that arent just drugs that's an extremely weak comparison. No one said ban, or make illegal. That's just that stupid redirect again. There have been intelligent dscussions here before and you dont have to believe a certain point to not obtain value in a discussion. There s nothing wrong with talking about any of those topics and i dont consider anyone 'crazy' because of these conversations.
 
Azrayne

Azrayne

Irenicus did nothing wrong
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DeadAgain!?_sl said:
Because if ALL drugs were to be made legal, there would be no need to still violently fight over territory and $? It would be the same as it is now minus the LE action. Take off the rose colored glasses and realize certain drugs may be harmless but there's a lot of blood associated with getting them from point A to point B - legal or not. Cartels will not sit idly by as their profits shrink because other people are moving into their territory.

it's a multi front war, taking out enforcement is just one front shutting down.
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Legal corporations will take over, just as they currently produce and sell alcohol and tobacco. You think the cartels are gonna go to war with Marlboro or Jim Bean? Even with the most absurdly high taxation, there's no way cartels could sell illegally produced and smuggled drugs at even close to the price that an international corporation could.

When prohibition ended in the 30's, the control of the alcohol trade shifted away from the mobsters and back to the brewers and distilleries. The exact same thing will happen when other drugs are legalized. Properly legalized, not this wink wink nudge nudge state law decriminalization look the other way shit.

Yeah I agree that this would go a long way to solve the voilence problem, but think about this. What do you think all the drug dealers, gang members, the killers do when drugs were to be made legal? Get full time jobs at the local factory or McDonalds?
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So what, we should continue the war on drugs because it provides employment for gangsters?
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
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Flunklesnarkin_sl said:
It's not gun ownership that's the problem, it's the people who own the guns.

Everybody is blaming the gun for this when it was the person who owned the gun who is to blame. The owner of the gun in this shooting and the mall shooting didn't secure their shit. Somebody else ended up taking it and using it in the shootings.

I'm all for laws mandating responsible gun ownership with penalties and everything else to go along with it. Owning something dangerous is fine as long as you are responsible. It really is a shame that the government has to enforce responsibility but such is life.

What others here were trying to point out is that while guns are the superior killing tool to knives or other weapons, taking them away doesn't solve the problem of crazy people. What happens when nut cases start driving cars up on crowded sidewalks a whole lot, do we take away cars?
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That's the main point right here. I dont think people are blaming the guns but are blaming the ease that irresponsible people can obtain these weapons. As I said, most gun owners are extremely responsible people and no one wants their guns taken away. There has to be a discussion from both sides for progress. There are many people that get very 'expressive' when any conversation about guns occur. That's from both sides of the isle but there has to be opinions from both sides on the responsibility issue and i dont have those answers.
 
Aychamo BanBan

Aychamo BanBan

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earthfell_sl said:
The common denominator is mental health and a poor infrastructure for social work. Firearm technology + corporate media allows untreated mental issues to explode in brilliant fashion. Gun control, while incredibly difficult due to the NRA, is the most simplistic way of dealing with the problem. Nobody wants to fund counseling services and social workers. People who want to go into that line of work even get laughed at.
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Probably because there is zero evidence that expanding counseling services and social workers would in any way cut down on mass shootings.
 
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foddon

Silver Knight of the Realm
747
5
Tarrant_sl said:
I'm sure the 8 sets of parents who were told their children were killed in Nanping City Experimental Elementary School in Nanping China will be relieved to know their kids didn't actually die.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nanping_school_stabbings

Same when Wu Huanming killed 7 kids and injured 11 others.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...-child-murders

Or when Fang Jiantang slashed 20 kids, killing 3 of them?

http://www.murderpedia.org/male.J/j/jiantang-fang.htm
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/aug...bings-20100804

Or when Wang Hongbin killed a little girl on her way to Kindergarten with 3 adults with an ax?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ity-China.html


In the span of around 22 months, over 110 children were attacked, around 20 of them were murdered, a good chunk of them under 6 years old. None of them involved firearms. Lets not act like shit would be much different if guns weren't around and that the US has a monopoly on violence. The majority of those killings were copycat killings of Zheng Minsheng, hell the second one I linked happened on the day he was executed. I've no doubt it's the case with many of the things here in teh States as well.
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There would be MANY MANY more dead in China after those attacks if guns were readily available like they are here. Do you actually doubt this?
 
Brando

Asshat Brando

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So now it's been confirmed that the Assault Rifle was the weapon used to do all the damage. Yesterday when it was just the two handguns you could have argued the point that more restrictive gun laws wouldn't have changed much. Now though it certainly is debatable, would 20 have been killed if he didn't have that weapon? What kind of reasoning for hunting or home protection is there for assault rifles to be available? Why not howitzers and mortars then?
 
Araysar

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Brando_sl said:
So now it's been confirmed that the Assault Rifle was the weapon used to do all the damage. Yesterday when it was just the two handguns you could have argued the point that more restrictive gun laws wouldn't have changed much. Now though it certainly is debatable, would 20 have been killed if he didn't have that weapon? What kind of reasoning for hunting or home protection is there for assault rifles to be available? Why not howitzers and mortars then?
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I'm fine with civilians owning howitzers and mortars.
 
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