NBA 2014 Off-Season Thread

The thing about Kyrie is he's really, at least so far, only good at scoring. He's young, but he definitely needs to up his play making if he's going to be as good as Cavs fans already think he is. He did have a pretty spectacular rookie year with little talent around him though and seeing him regress is a bummer. He seems like a fun guy to root for. He's an atrocious defender though and probably will always be below average there. He's a good enough shooter that he'll fit in next to LeBron just fine though. He needs to shoot better than 43% though. This last season was really rough for him.

His youth is the reason to be optimistic though.

Let me add another though in there just for good measure.

Ambiturner_sl said:

Laughed at first, then remembered it's the Cavs

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Rubio didn't turn into the super star David Kahn saved that max deal for, but he is, despite his god awful shooting, a decent player. Starting caliber with the right players around him for sure. You'd really have to watch a lot of MN games to realize this, but they're just a different team with him on the court. He's also a plus defensively. But, you definitely need the right assets to supplement shooting around him, which is why it's so frustrating to see Love not work out.

All this preference for the Chicago deal or being ok with returning Wiggins all, for me, comes from the idea that it's inevitable we trade Love. My stance remains the same as it was at the beginning of the offseason: Refuse to trade him and make him walk away from the 5th year we can offer him. We're in a similar spot regardless of if he walks or we trade him: rebuilding.

I can understand the pro Wiggins side of the discussion, because essentially hecouldbe the player you ultimately rebuild for, but I still dare him to walk away from the money. I like your scenario even better because the LMA comparison has merit I think. No one thought he had a future with the Blazers and now he's talking about retiring there. Winning cures most things.

Flip is the shittiest part of the whole equation, because I still don't trust him to run and/or coach this organization (although, to his credit, he's handled this Love situation he inherited about as well as you could). So, it's not like I think it really matters what we do. With Flip I think we're going to be pretty shitty no matter what so I guess I should say I vote for whichever option gets him fired first. Haha.

Convo_sl said:

I didn't miss your point and I know the question wasnt directed at me. I just thought it was an interesting one so I jumped in. Id make the trade. Reason being, and why I said what I said last post is...unless you can bring in another player with the ability to help love win a title, you're not winning a title. Wolves aren't good enough and not moving him will result in a lot of frustration when they get knocked out of the playoffs and lose love anyway. For me it's an easy one and does come down to an all or nothing desicion. If you keep love, do you really believe you can win a championship? If not, you take one of those deals. Just seems like too big of a gamble to keep him unless they are playing on a crazy high level.

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There are a couple ways to think about this. First, I think the "championship or bust" mentality for anyone that isn't in a major market is bullshit from the top down. It's something owners and team officials say, but don't really mean. Teams want to make money and that's the bottom line. Now if you can aspire for a championship while making money (like say where the Rockets are right now), even better, but that doesn't change the financial impact that years of tanking (or just being shitty in our case) has on smaller team.

The Wolves would probably sacrifice virgins for a few first round exits like back in the KG days simply to drum up some buzz about the team. I mean, the fucking Bobcats made the playoffs last year. The Bucks are probably the only franchise I'd consider worse than the Wolves. I've been a season ticket holder for 5 years (stopping this year fuck Flip Saunders). I've watched something like 130 live losses in that stretch. I'll take the playoffs only to get bounced by the Thunder just to enjoy a year and get to watch a playoff game up here.

Beyond that, it depends on how highly you value Love. I think he could without question be the best player on the championship team, and beyond that I think Rubio could be in your "core." The problem is the rest of the team (Pek is fine just not complimentary to Love) which was assembled through poor draft choices and overpaying free agents. If I took over the team today, I'd still do everything I possibly could to retain Love, then I'd do everything I could to turn some combination of Martin/Pek/Brewer/Dieng/Shabazz/Lavine (basically anyone on the roster that might have even the slightest perceived value) into a legitimate 3rd player to sit next to Love and Rubio. For all his faults, Kahn tried to do this with that mega RFA offer he was giving Batum.

Love walks? Fine. Tank tank tank. Trade anyone of value (which isn't much) for expirings. Hold on to Rubio through his next deal simply for the media implications. Take on some less than great contracts (like Larry Sanders) with first rounders coming back along with them.

I still roll the dice on Love though, because I think he's that good.

Convo_sl said:

I think Love is awesome, I get why people want him there. Who wouldnt? I just think he's walking and the fact that he is willing to take less to go to the Cavs proves that. I'd rather come out of it with Wiggens or what the Bulls are offering, but that's just me. I don't have the invested interest you guys have. So it's a lot easier said than done on my end. I just think it would suck letting such an awesome talent walk for nothing.

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Love is not taking less money to go to the Cavs. He's still under contract. He's just getting traded there.

Convo_sl said:

he'd stand to make more money long term if he stays with the Wolves? At least that's how I thought it works. Maybe I'm confusing the trade with actually being a free agent. If he's traded to the Cavs and agrees on a deal, could he make the same max deal as opposed to resigning with the Wolves?

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His bird rights transfer with him when traded so the Cavs would then be able to sign him to a max 5 year deal.

Djay_sl said:

If you believe he's going to walk, then you want to be as bad as possible, which means getting nothing in return. If your goal is to not be in the middle of the pack, then maximizing your return for Love is counterproductive.

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Right. This is my big point that simply the "better to get something as opposed to nothing" mentality isn't necessarily right.

I can get people disagreeing with me on Wiggins though. Do the Wolves tank and get a prospect who is that good? Who knows. Truth is, I think he's overhyped and doubt he's ever as good as people think (T Mac mixed with Pippen would be like a top 10 player all time right?), but I also think his floor is probably pretty high and he's going to be a decent player at the least. I still try to keep Love though because he's already that good.