NBA 2015-2016 Season thread

I would not trade Noel for anyone outside of the top 2 in this draft. It is not a great draft. I like Murray a lot, but the chance at him being say Reggie Jackson or CJ Mccollum is just as equal as, I don't know, Jodie Meeks. Noel is the only one of your bigs I'm 100% sure can guard PFs in the NBA (I know for sure Okafor can't).

I still don't understand the thought process. PG means Paul George right? So the Lakers deal for him via some hypothetical deal that involves Randle but NOT #2 and NOT Russell. Then they say, "Hey! We have PG13, fuck rebuilding!" and trade Russell (and no 2!!) for Okafor? Why? How is that not still rebuilding? I believe your logic is they then sign a PG (you suggested Conley). So they trade Russell/#2 for Okafor on draft night banking on their ability to lure Conley to LA to play with Jahlil and Paul George. Instead of keeping those two assets and going after Whiteside? What's a better core, either for now or the future? Russell/Ingram/PG/Whiteside or Conley/PG/Okafor? If you answer with the 2nd, I'm going to call you a homer again. The chances of all that happening aren't 2%. They're 0%. PG nets more than just Randle, so in the unrealistic world where the Lakers are offering the best package for him, it's certainly more than just that. Step one of this scenario can't even happen, and if it would, the Lakers are giving up Russell or that 2nd pick along with it, which means you aren't able to get both of them in the next deal for Okafor.

Convo_sl said:

P.S. I do know I'm over thinking this.. but how much do you really think it would cost to get Russell from the Lakers? Btw.. our lakers pick isn't unprotected next year, I was wrong on that.

Click to expand...

Realistically I don't think there is a deal that can be made where the center pieces from LA are Ingram and Russell and the center piece coming from Philly is Okafor. Okafor (or Noel), Saric and their pick back. Would you do that? I'm guessing you'd say hell no and I don't even really like the deal for LA. Just drafting Ingram makes sense for them if they're content to rebuild. If they aren't, trading for Okafor doesn't make sense either.

Pharazon_sl said:

That's why I wouldn't mind trading Noel if I were them for the #3 pick in this draft or so. Noel's rook deal ends the upcoming year, and I haven't seen anything special out of him to indicate he's a guy they must hold on to if he's going to cost that much. It wouldn't be terrible to pay him cause they have to start paying their young guys someday, but is he the first one they want to give a big contract to? He was a the #6 pick in a terrible draft, and if that draft was to have a redo now he'd still be around #6 at best. I'd trade him for Hield in a second since the Sixers lack shooting and the 3 ball is the center of the game right now.

I'd probably trade Okafor for Ingram as well if the Lakers do consider that. The Sixers could legitimately think about trading both Okafor and Noel for #2/#3 respectively, getting Simmons / Ingram / Hield, signing a more proven center in FA since they have to spend their money somewhere anyways, and then they have more room for Embiid to show if he's ever able to play. However, I don't think the Celtics trade #3 for Noel. They'd also be better off just picking Hield and going after Howard / Whiteside / Horford or whoever with some of their FA $'s.

Click to expand...

Noel is junk on the offensive side of the court, but he's 22 and a really good defender and in today's NBA you really require someone that can guard stretch 4s. Covington can do that in spurts, but you obviously aren't going to play him at the 4 full time.

He's not the idea guy to put next to either Okafor or Embiid or Simmons for that matter. The entire frontcourt can't stretch the floor and that's really counter intuitive to how the NBA is played today. But he has more value than those draft picks. Ireallylike Murray. A ton. But I don't think it's sound practice to ever trade proven young talent for unproven prospects (other than can't miss guys like Simmons/Ingram obviously). Noel can fetch more than that if you would decide to trade him.


And yeah Convo, I enjoy the conversation. Nothing heated over on my end. Just don't get offended when I call you a homer. I mean, I definitely think you're a homer, but it's all well intended.

Jesus man. That Liberty Ballers article. LOL.

That first article was written 20 games into the season. The overall point it makes isn't invalid, the 6ers suck and Okafor had shit talent around him all year, I understand that. That point falls apart when you examine more closely and see they actually played worse with Jahlil on the court than they did without him. Much worse, actually. That's the biggest evidence against, but the article also ignore just the type of player Okafor is: old school big man. Towns shot 34% from behind the arc this year. He's very athletic. He is a player that runs in transition and can pick and pop. Okafor isn't doing those things. He sets up in the post and you feed him the ball. Of course his assisted bucket % is going to be lower.

The second article is much more objective, and tells it pretty much like I expect. Jah plays pretty decent post defense for his age. I don't think that's very surprising.

I've made these comments over and over and they don't really seem to register. But again, there are two reasons why I don't think Okafor is a great piece to build around.

1. ISO ball is least efficient method of scoring in the NBA. Even skilled post players like Al Jefferson or Brook Lopez don't convert at nearly the same rate as PNR opportunities, transition or screen plays to set up open shooters. Ball movement, motion, pick n roll/pop, off ball screens and pushing in the open court is the way basketball is played today and it isn't because kids don't know how to play in the post, it's because teams have smartened up with how to be the most efficient with their shots. Okafor is the antithesis of all of this.
2. NBA bigs have to be able to guard the pick and roll and Okafor is too slow and unathletic to do so. Towns is already as a 19 year old better at this than Okafor ever will be. Whoever you PG of the future is will be hung out to dry 20 times a game as the opposing offense forces Okafor out to the perimeter. Jah will be expected to hedge screens and won't be able to recover. It's the biggest black mark on his defensive ability and it isn't even his fault. He can learn to play acceptable defense at the rim. He's simply never going to be great at dealing with screens on the perimeter and he's going to have to do it all the time.

Those are two really massive red flags to me. I'm not saying you don't draft him where the Sixers do. Or you don't showcase him big time early on to try and drive up his trade value. Or if you're forced to keep him you don't try and compensate by putting very athletic players around him. But I don't know how an ISO post centered team wins a championship in the modern NBA.