NBA 2015 Playoffs Thread

DickTrickle · May 25, 2015

Kobe 6-24 in a finals game seven. He doesn't get crucified for it because his team won because of defense.

His overall clutch stats (little time remaining) are horrible compared to Jordan or lebron. Willingness/need to shoot isn't clutch and is more of a positive for the defense to key on him.

Kellim · May 25, 2015

Commander Vimeseh_sl said:
Clutch is pretty hard to define. But when you talk about guys like Jordan and to a lesser extent Kobe they didn't disappear for whole games or fourth quarters like LeBron has in big game situations.

Agreed, clutch is hard to define, and to be fair, I'm not even sure that I believe that such a thing exists.

If anyone believes in the ability of an individual to be 'clutch' then the end of playoff games when the score is +/- one possession seems to be a pretty good indicator and in those situations, LeBron is at least Jordan's equal.

That having been said, he notion that the only important thing is what happens at the very end of the game is absurd. If you excel through the first 47 minutes, the last minute means nothing.

Kreugen · May 25, 2015

Apparently you only see the best Lebron when he's the only person left on the team capable of dribbling the ball or creating anything yet somehow he still believes that his team can win. Seriously, wtf? He was playing 5 positions at once while 4 guys stood on the perimeter waiting. Is ball handling at NBA level just that rare of a gift? Most teams at least have someone capable of running the offense outside of its two superstars.

Slaythe · May 25, 2015

Lots of media driven myths in the last few posts.

The idea that Kobe is/was more clutch than LeBron is laughably absurd. As is comparing their overall talent.

LeBron isn't MJ but he's damn sure the best we've had since and he'seasilyone of the top 5 to ever play the game. Dude is a historic talent. There is no real reason to look down on him just because he isn't better than the consensus best player of all time. I'm just happy that I've gotten to see 3 of those top 5 guys in person.

skrala · May 25, 2015

Any one else terrified for Steph Curry's tissue-paper ankles after watching Dellavedova play in this series? I don't think he's a dirty player, but damn does he have a knack for landing on guys' lower legs.

Sterling · May 25, 2015

Commander Vimeseh_sl said:
Clutch is pretty hard to define. But when you talk about guys like Jordan and to a lesser extent Kobe they didn't disappear for whole games or fourth quarters like LeBron has in big game situations.

Kobe is probably the most overrated player in the history of the league.

Angelwatch · May 25, 2015

I don't think Delly is a dirty player despite the leg lock. He's a scrapper with a "see ball, get ball" mentality. Just don't let your knees or ankles get between him and the ball and you'll be fine ;-)

Urlithani · May 25, 2015

Kellim_sl said:
You watched the game tonight and have presumably watched other games in the past, right?

I'm not sure how you could fail to see "drive" and "will to win".

As for clutch, I get that everyone has this preconceived notion that LeBron isn't clutch, but by objective criteria, he's right up there with anyone who has a decent sized sample.

If you just don't like LeBron for whatever reason, that's cool, but say that instead of acting like he's not meeting some reasonable expectations for greatness.

I should have clarified that I'm perceiving what some people think, not what I think. I don't think clutch and stuff like that is any greater in Jordan or Kobe than it is in Lebron. It's unfair because his size and skillset means he can do it all, so people expect him to do it all. If Lebron's team is getting killed in the paint, it's "Lebron can defend the 5, why isn't he doing it?" "Lebron is a great passer, so he should pass more. No, he's a great shooter too, he should shoot more!" Nobody expected Jordan or Kobe to do it all and carry a team. Kobe and Jordan are defined by being SG's (I mean, let's talk about transcendant SG's here...Jordan, Kobe, Wade in his prime, Clyde Drexler, ...uhhh then the next tier with Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Vince Carter)? Lebron is defined by being able to do anything, so he should have 15 championships in 14 years!

When I say I think Kobe is ahead of him, he doesn't have far to go. Just from pure numbers example.

Shit, I'm a Heat fan. I love me some Lebron. Thanks for the rings Lebron!

Djay · May 25, 2015

It's really funny that there's nobody on your list that didn't play in the last 20 years. Jerry West, George Gervin, Pete Maravich, John Havlicek, Earl Monroe, and Oscar Robertson (if you consider him a SG) all go above Wade on that list. Most of them go above Kobe, too.

Convo · May 25, 2015

Urlithani · May 25, 2015

Djay_sl said:
It's really funny that there's nobody on your list that didn't play in the last 20 years. Jerry West, George Gervin, Pete Maravich, John Havlicek, Earl Monroe, and Oscar Robertson (if you consider him a SG) all go above Wade on that list. Most of them go above Kobe, too.

I'm only 36 and haven't dived into the NBA's past as much as a diehard fan. Not trying to discredit any of the great players from past eras, but I don't know them besides their names and that they were good.

Alex · May 25, 2015

Skrala_sl said:
Any one else terrified for Steph Curry's tissue-paper ankles after watching Dellavedova play in this series? I don't think he's a dirty player, but damn does he have a knack for landing on guys' lower legs.

It's been over three years. I think we can lay the "tissue paper ankles" thing to rest.

Still, Dellavedova better not try any shit. If he took Curry out he would be the immediate MVP of the series.

Djay · May 25, 2015

Urlithani_sl said:
I'm only 36 and haven't dived into the NBA's past as much as a diehard fan. Not trying to discredit any of the great players from past eras, but I don't know them besides their names and that they were good.

Fair enough. It is really hard to compares eras sometimes anyway...hand-checking vs no hand-checking, 3pt line vs no 3 pt line. It's impossible for me to give Bill Russell as much credit as he probably deserves, for example, because they didn't track blocks and offensive rebounds back then, so I only have anecdotal evidence of his greatness. I've never been able to decide on how to rank Hakeem/Kareem/Wilt/Russell in relation to each other.

Slaythe · May 25, 2015

Urlithani_sl said:
When I say I think Kobe is ahead of him, he doesn't have far to go. Just from pure numbers example.

What numbers does Kobe have that LeBron doesn't? Just number of championships?

Because statistically you just aren't going to be able to make an argument that Kobe has ever been better than James.

Szlia · May 25, 2015

From a layman's perspective, it seems to me Lebron's main problem for being considered the greatest of all time is not his stat line or his ring collection, but his character. And not in term of being clutch or his will to win or whatever, but in term of being a bit of a whiny jackass who rides a bike with "King James" written on it. That may be an unfair portrayal, and maybe other greats were/are similarly insufferable, but if you want to decide who is the greatest champion, it's not unreasonable to factor in this aspect.

Alex · May 25, 2015

That has to be the most points given up by the W's in one quarter. Ridiculous shooting.

Pigbenis · May 25, 2015

Imo, number of titles a player gets holds little weight when it comes to greatness. If you look at most superstars they usually had at least 1 all star caliber player alongside with them getting rings. Just being on the court great players help the other players play at a higher level.

Szlia_sl said:
From a layman's perspective, it seems to me Lebron's main problem for being considered the greatest of all time is not his stat line or his ring collection, but his character. And not in term of being clutch or his will to win or whatever, but in term of being a bit of a whiny jackass who rides a bike with "King James" written on it. That may be an unfair portrayal, and maybe other greats were/are similarly insufferable, but if you want to decide who is the greatest champion, it's not unreasonable to factor in this aspect.

I agree completely. I think Lebron skipping college was his biggest mistake.

Szlia · May 25, 2015

That fall did not look good

I am worried about the wrist/arm mostly.

Muurloen · May 25, 2015

Genuinely, I hope Curry is ok.

To me it its neck and shoulder.

Alex · May 25, 2015

Well. If Curry's out the Rockets might be the first team to come back from 3-0. Fuck.

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NBA 2015 Playoffs Thread

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