No Time to Die (007 Bond)

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Chris

Chris

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We'll always have these two gems:

You Only Live Twice
  • There's a hollowed out volcano lair with monorail, pirahna pool, spaceship capturing spaceship which is scouted out by Bond first on a mini-helicopter and then as a Japanese fisherman post RACE CHANGE OPERATION. Then he attacks it with ninjas.
Moonraker
  • There's the spacestation shooting genocide capsules at earth so all the models populating the spacestation can fuck the human race back into being. They go to it using Space Shuttles before the shuttle was invented and have a LAZER BATTLE IN SPACE.
They need to go back to that. Now it looked a bit goofy when they did a few things like that in Die Another Day like the invisible car and solarbeam satalite, but I'm sure they can work out a way to give us space battles again.
 
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

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Chris said:
We'll always have these two gems:

You Only Live Twice
  • There's a hollowed out volcano lair with monorail, pirahna pool, spaceship capturing spaceship which is scouted out by Bond first on a mini-helicopter and then as a Japanese fisherman post RACE CHANGE OPERATION. Then he attacks it with ninjas.
Moonraker
  • There's the spacestation shooting genocide capsules at earth so all the models populating the spacestation can fuck the human race back into being. They go to it using Space Shuttles before the shuttle was invented and have a LAZER BATTLE IN SPACE.
They need to go back to that. Now it looked a bit goofy when they did a few things like that in Die Another Day like the invisible car and solarbeam satalite, but I'm sure they can work out a way to give us space battles again.
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LOL its also fun watching Kung Fu and having red neck cowboys call David Carradine a bunch of chinese bad names lol - I knew that china man was up to no good!

Dude, he does not look anything like a china man!

And DUDE moonraker was AWESOME
 
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spronk

spronk

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Moonraker was ahead of its time, you saw the hero Jaws hook up with a tiny chick and it celebrated that no matter how weird or ugly you are, there is still someone out there you can fuck and also having braces is not something to be mocked for

WjQct9s.jpg
 
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Srathor

Srathor

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Well once this fails they can use that actress as the new Jackie Chan in Real life. I mean he is getting old and has lost a step.
 
Lithose

Lithose

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Chris said:
I think what we fear is a politically correct diversity hire telling Bond off for being a dinosaur and being better than him in every way.

They could also go the route of her being a politically correct diversity hire who can't get the job done because she won't get dirty, that's probably the best case scenario and would win the culture war for us if a big franchise shits on the SJWs.
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That's precisely what everyone fears. Its not hard to pass on the torch in a satisfying way, even if its given to a fundamentally different character. If you want a good example, X23 in Wolverine. The biggest, baddest, most super masculine character in Comic Movies passed the torch to a little girl--and I loved every second of it. Why? Because it felt very organic, it FELT like how everyone gets the torch passed from their parents to themselves--its a bitter sweet moment that takes a lot of trial and error that ultimately forces you to deeply empathize with the people your parents were and the responsibilities they had (Caveat being if you had good parents. Which, we're talking about characters the audience loves, so good parents is the reflection). If you can't evoke these same emotions, then attempting to pass the torch is not going to have the kind of impact that we can resonate with. Its going to be like watching a shitty brat rich kid who succeeds not because he's capable, but because the entire company was set up as a vehicle to allow him to succeed no matter how naive he was. (IE the most infuriating people on earth, super sheltered rich kids who believe they know more about the world than anyone and who are reaffirmed by ivory tower environments that are totally artificial but also impervious--IE like a warped movie world).

The problem is, most SJW inserts start off stronger/more adept than the old character, and their convictions/ideals are superior to the point that the old character looks either like a piece of shit or an idiot. I think this is what turns audiences off. We spent years, decades even, sympathizing with beloved characters--we understood the choices they made because those choices seemed almost forced by context (IE how the real world forces people to make hard choices). And that's the issue. You don't build universes where we sympathized with the choices these old characters made, and then invalidate it all without burning bridges. But because most SJW characters can NOT be seen as vulnerable or dependent AT ALL throughout a film? They have to START the film doing exactly that, making the old character seem almost stupid to have existed and now is, in fact, a hindrance.

Stories should reflect some form of life, mythologize some emotional journey. For the majority, the journey of being passed the torch reflects the Dunning Kruger curve (Children rebel and feel their parents are dumb, real life smacks them in the face and they quickly realize they have a lot more to learn, and over time come to see that they've become a lot more like their parents--because the way their parents were was not built on choice, but rather the compromises people must make to be responsible in life.). To that end, I believe arcs in these movies should follow Dunning Kruger curve to feel satisfying.

dunning-kruger_effect.jpg



By all means, start off high minded, with strong ideals and traits that maybe in someways are superior to the old characters. Have that confidence come into conflict with the old character, like a child rebelling. But then have the world smack the new character in the face and really humble them..During this, show that old character wasn't wrong, many of his choices/traits were due his being molded by experience and knowledge--the new character just didn't understand the context they existed in (Bonus points if the new characters naivety was allowed by the old character's burden/guard). And this should apply to physical traits as well..The new character can be stronger, but the old is so much more efficient he does a lot better anyway). This gives the new character some humility, it validates the audiences approval of the old character (And frankly validates the fucking writing of the old the character as decent) and it gives a REASON for the old and new to bond, as the new needs to learn.

Then, over the film have the new character learn and adapt some of those previously destroyed ideals to modify a couple of the old characters teachings and improve upon them. So instead of invalidating the old characters experiences, it instead builds on them--more standing on the shoulders of giants, rather than "you represent an old dead way and I need to kill the past so my glorious revolution can be born!". And that would end a satisfying arc, with the old character acknowledging new perspectives did bring something beneficial and being proud of the new, acknowledging this person can accept the responsability he once held, and the new character realizing what a debt was owed to the person who came before, and he now has a responsibility to carry that forward.
 
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Chris

Chris

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Lithose said:
That's precisely what everyone fears. Its not hard to pass on the torch in a satisfying way, even if its given to a fundamentally different character. If you want a good example, X23 in Wolverine. The biggest, baddest, most super masculine character in Comic Movies passed the torch to a little girl--and I loved every second of it. Why? Because it felt very organic, it FELT like how everyone gets the torch passed from their parents to themselves--its a bitter sweet moment that takes a lot of trial and error, and ultimately forces you to deep sympathize with the people your parents were (Caveat being if you had good parents. Which, we're talking about characters the audience loves, so good parents is the reflection). If you can't evoke these same emotions, then attempting to pass the torch is not going to have the kind of impact that we can resonate with. Its going to be like watching a shitty brat rich kid who succeeds not because he's capable, but because the entire company was set up as a vehicle to allow him to succeed no matter how naive he was. (IE the most infuriating people on earth, super sheltered rich kids who believe they know more about the world than anyone and who are reaffirmed by ivory tower environments that are totally artificial but also impervious--IE like a warped movie world).
Click to expand...
Logan & X-23 is a good point, shame they didn't use the character again.
 
Slaanesh69

Slaanesh69

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Chris said:
Logan & X-23 is a good point, shame they didn't use the character again.
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Right! That transfer was so well done I did not even think about it in the context of "wolverine is now a woman" until Lithose actually pointed it out. All I thought was "the new wolverine is a badass already".

VERY interesting illustration.
 
Downhammer

Downhammer

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As a practical matter why would you ever pick a black female as a globetrotting covert agent. Good luck sending her on a mission to eastern europe/russia, east asia, or muslim countries (now including parts of western europe). Joke all you want about Connery pretending to be a Jap but that's at least in the realm of possibility compared to this chic inflitrating any non-african terrorist group.
 
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Pharone

Pharone

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Downhammer said:
As a practical matter why would you ever pick a black female as a globetrotting covert agent. Good luck sending her on a mission to eastern europe/russia, east asia, or muslim countries (now including parts of western europe). Joke all you want about Connery pretending to be a Jap but that's at least in the realm of possibility compared to this chic inflitrating any non-african terrorist group.
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I never thought about it before, but now that you mention it, I would think that any good undercover agent would need to be about as plain jane middle of the road as humanly possible. There would have to be nothing notable about the person's appearance at all. You would want an everybody kind of person.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Pharone said:
I never thought about it before, but now that you mention it, I would think that any good undercover agent would need to be about as plain jane middle of the road as humanly possible. There would have to be nothing notable about the person's appearance at all. You would want an everybody kind of person.
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Affirmative action means this bitch can infiltrate anything
 
Chris

Chris

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Pharone said:
I never thought about it before, but now that you mention it, I would think that any good undercover agent would need to be about as plain jane middle of the road as humanly possible. There would have to be nothing notable about the person's appearance at all. You would want an everybody kind of person.
Click to expand...
"We need an agent to infiltrate an Islamist terrorist group, which of our generic British guys shall we send?"
 
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