North Korea goes full retard

ToeMissile · Mar 11, 2013

I asked the wife, and she said the characters in the red banner of the first video, don't say anything about nukes. It's along the lines of 'How Americans live'.

Eomer · Mar 11, 2013

BurnemWizfyre_sl said:
I am looking forward toward bird Tuesday.

They are delicious.

Araysar · Mar 11, 2013

Lithose_sl said:
That being said, North Korea, from a total deaths point of view, has experienced the worst famine in history. More Koreans have starved to death than Somalians. The average height of a North Korean is something like 3 inches shorter than South Korea because malnourishment is so rampant--it's actually worse than Africa. And yet fatty fat still lives. So, yeah....they believe it.

Off the top of my head, Holodomor had more people die from famine than North Korea and that wasnt even a hundred years ago. Back in 1700s-1900s, the Bengal and Chinese famines took an average about 10 million people each time, they happened half a dozen times or so.

Eomer · Mar 11, 2013

I would imagine he's talking proportionately to their population.

hodj · Mar 11, 2013

Even then, the mass starvations under Mao probably exceeded the North Korean famines per capita.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward

The exact number of famine deaths is difficult to determine, and estimates range from 18[4] to at least 42 million[5] people. Because of the uncertainties involved in estimating famine deaths caused by the Great Leap Forward or any famine, it is difficult to compare the severity of different famines. However if a mid estimate of 30 million deaths is accepted, the Great leap Forward was the deadliest famine in the history of China and in the history of the world.[45][52]

Added:

Fucking Lysenkoism.

Araysar · Mar 11, 2013

Eomer_sl said:
I would imagine he's talking proportionately to their population.

I imagine 10 million people in 1700s Bengal was proportionately a ton of people.

P.S. cant believe I forgot about the great leap

Drinsic · Mar 11, 2013

Oh, well in that case I can see why Dennis Rodman thinks Kim Jong Fat is a cool dude.

Eomer · Mar 11, 2013

I don't really have a dog in the fight, but using hodj's link above, the Great Leap Forward resulted in approximately 5% of China's population starving if you assume it was 30 million people. During the Arduous March famine in North Korea it looks like it was in the 5-10% range as well. Apparently during the Great Irish Famine it was 12.5%. The Bengal famine of 1770 apparently was as high as a third of the population, which is pretty incredible.

Tuco · Mar 11, 2013

just read about the bengal famine of 1770 for the first time. Holy shit what a clusterfuck and an example of bad capitalism/ownership.

hodj · Mar 11, 2013

Eomer_sl said:
I don't really have a dog in the fight, but using hodj's link above, the Great Leap Forward resulted in approximately 5% of China's population starving if you assume it was 30 million people. During the Arduous March famine in North Korea it looks like it was in the 5-10% range as well. Apparently during the Great Irish Famine it was 12.5%. The Bengal famine of 1770 apparently was as high as a third of the population, which is pretty incredible.

eh fair enough.

Lithose · Mar 11, 2013

Araysar_sl said:
Off the top of my head, Holodomor had more people die from famine than North Korea and that wasnt even a hundred years ago. Back in 1700s-1900s, the Bengal and Chinese famines took an average about 10 million people each time, they happened half a dozen times or so.

It depends by which numbers you go by. "Officially" the NK famine ended in 98 with only 3 million dead. But most believe it actually continued to this day, only lessening during food aid deliveries for a few years. Some estimates I've read put it in the 8-10 million (Something like 30%+ of the current population). But it's hard to get accurate numbers because of the situation. (I did say total deaths, that was bad wording on my part.)

hodj_sl said:
Even then, the mass starvations under Mao probably exceeded the North Korean famines per capita.

The exact number of famine deaths is difficult to determine, and estimates range from 18[4] to at least 42 million[5] people. Because of the uncertainties involved in estimating famine deaths caused by the Great Leap Forward or any famine, it is difficult to compare the severity of different famines. However if a mid estimate of 30 million deaths is accepted, the Great leap Forward was the deadliest famine in the history of China and in the history of the world.[45][52]

The thirty million figure, from everything I've read, is the accepted one. The problem with NK is we don't know, we can only estimate...but if the estimates are correct, it is far higher than the great leap proportionately. Though I did say total deaths (Late night bad language use, it's not the highest in total deaths).

hodj · Mar 11, 2013

Even the Chinese numbers are heavily built upon inference, Deng Xiaoping's government had estimates of 16 million or so dead in the Great Leap. Western sources using that data and census and population estimates reach the 30 million total. This is just from starvation, mind, even Deng Xiaoping's government estimated total deaths from the Great Leap period to be closer to 40 million or so.

Its all really conjecture in a way.

But yeah, North Korea could very definitely be losing a larger overall percentage of its population, while only clocking in 1/10th of the total deaths in China's great leap period, because China's population is so large and North Koreas....not so much.

Is the impact on a population greater when 2 or 3 million people out of 25 million starve to death versus when 30 million out of 300 million die?

I just don't know. Hope I never have to find out, if I was being completely honest.

ToeMissile · Mar 11, 2013

Granted NK is back-assward, but it seems technology level/globalization should be taken into some sort of consideration. Not to mention the amount of food that's wasted.http://www.ted.com/talks/tristram_st...e_scandal.html

hodj · Mar 11, 2013

What does food being wasted in the West have to do with North Korea, exactly?

They aren't going to buy the food from us, its not our responsibility to send them endless amounts of free food to help keep their corrupt Mafia style government in power and running concentration camps and commiting atrocities against their own citizens.

Most of that food is processed, and most of that food is being "wasted" because it went bad on store shelves, which do not suffer from supply rationing like North Korean markets do because we don't run a command economy on the scale they do. You can't take half rotten food from store shelves, pack it up, freeze it, then ship it off to North Korea, or anywhere else, it'll go bad by the time its distributed properly. Not to mention the good food would just be hoarded by the North Korean military any way, none or very little foreign food aid sent to North Korea to date has made it to the people on the ground, the government doesn't allow the Red Cross to go in and distribute direction to the population because that would threaten their power base as well. They get the food aid, and then they give it to the military and if there is any left over and they are in a really good mood that week, maybe someone will get a handful of rice.

I don't get it. If anything, technology level and globalization would be the solution to North Korea's problems, but they are the ones who don't want to get on board with that, because that would undermine the Party and Military government there.

Added: Maybe I'm misunderstanding your point though. I dunno. Clarify for me if you feel like doing so.

ToeMissile · Mar 11, 2013

I meant as a factor when 'ranking' starvation 'events/occurrences'. And I'm aware it isn't really relevant to NK with the political issues involved.

Erronius · Mar 11, 2013

A famine discussion isn't what I expected when I saw that there were new posts.

hodj · Mar 11, 2013

ToeMissile_sl said:
I meant as a factor when 'ranking' starvation 'events/occurrences'. And I'm aware it isn't really relevant to NK with the political issues involved.

Ah I gotcha.

Jozu · Mar 11, 2013

hodj_sl said:
The Party members tend to believe the propaganda until they hit their mid twenties then they start to see the lies but at that point, what can they do? They're party members, and therefore don't suffer as much as others, so they figure its as good as it can get.

The regular people in North Korea don't have any faith in their government any more, but if they try to do anything about it, like escape, or rebel, they and three generations of their family are imprisoned in the concentration camps, or executed outright. Its a very effective system (up to this point, it can't last forever) at keeping the people under control.

When things get real bad, the state just stops enforcing its laws on private marketplaces for awhile, so people can get high priced food from China, and that helps keep the pot from boiling over.

Just if you ever need to understand why North Korea stands today, just remember, if you fold a newspaper such that the crease falls on the face of Dear Leader or one of his Predecessors, you will go to a concentration camp. So will your mother and father, any brothers and sisters you have, any children you have, and any children any of the aforementioned have. For life.

Yeah, the concentration camps they have over there are fucking insane. Its like Soviet era Gulags. They literally will have you work yourself to death, or work until you are physically unable to, and then kill you themselves. Women, children, whatever.

The good news for them is they have held for 60 years. They havent held "strong" but they held. Its a shame too, given that 95% of North Koreans would behave exactly like their brethren from the south if given the chance. They would be a peaceful, technology addicted culture that wants nothing else than happiness. But instead the North's power structure takes advantage of their own population and oppresses any naysayers.

Araysar · Mar 11, 2013

Tuco_sl said:
just read about the bengal famine of 1770 for the first time. Holy shit what a clusterfuck and an example of bad capitalism/ownership.

Crazy talk. I'm sure someone stepped in and sold food to fill the void in the market. This sounds like another screwup from that tax loving liberal Obama

hodj · Mar 11, 2013

Jozu_sl said:
Yeah, the concentration camps they have over there are fucking insane. Its like Soviet era Gulags. They literally will have you work yourself to death, or work until you are physically unable to, and then kill you themselves. Women, children, whatever.

The good news for them is they have held for 60 years. They havent held "strong" but they held. Its a shame too, given that 95% of North Koreans would behave exactly like their brethren from the south if given the chance. They would be a peaceful, technology addicted culture that wants nothing else than happiness. But instead the North's power structure takes advantage of their own population and oppresses any naysayers.

If anyone is interested, this is a really good interview with the only person to have ever escaped a North Korean prison camp, and then North Korea proper, alive

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ms4NIB6xroc

North Korea goes full retard

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