Tuco
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The problem is that you have no factual basis to back up those feelings. You're just desperately searching for research that backs up what you think instinctively.
Paleo 101: How and why you should eat like a Caveman
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Dashel
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Forget studies, do you think bread and pasta will help keep you lean and healthy?
Hey that sounds like what Gary Taubes does.
This thread woulda gone so much better if Douchel didn't take the stance that he found the holy grail, and truly approached it as "Hey this is interesting, what do you think?" Now he's stuck googling like a maniac trying to find anything to support his cause because as aychamo said pages ago, he really doesn't understand how things work or what he's reading.
If someone eats a strict more conventional healthy diet for 6 months and their blood work is whatever, and then they do 6 months of Paleo and it improves, awesome. Until then I don't want to hear how it's amazing.
Yes. If you said "twinkies and chocolate" I'd say no. Moderation, like everything else.
It's fucking whole grain bread not French fries.
Dashel
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25% of your diet is not moderation to me, especially when you're promoting that over good fats. As for research, the glycemic index is established and accepted, that Harvard site has a list:http://www.health.harvard.edu/newswe..._100_foods.htm
Wheat bread comes in at 71, and Coke at 63.
Wheat bread comes in at 71, and Coke at 63.
Convo
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Do you think eating massive amount of red meat will keep you healthy? You can't just ignore studies..
I mean, if you restrict carbs to say 50g a day, eating Whole grains, fruit/veggies and keep yourself at a calorie deficit while also eating lean protein and healthy fats. What type of health issues would you anticipate?
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You seem a bit over obsessed with insulin spikes. Is that really all you have against carbohydrates? If I can handle the spikes, and I've honestly never noticed a difference in how I feel based on what I eat(beside being full), why are insulin spikes bad? Yes, doing it far too often and too hard will cause the beetus. But no one here is talking about pounding a bag of white bread for lunch.
And, yes, I've kept lean while eat breads and pasta for years. Got some rigatoni sitting right next me that I'm going to consume for lunch. I'll be quite honest I don't know my very recent blood work, but as of a few years ago, everything was fine. Haven't had my blood pulled since, but my diet hasn't really changed in quite a while.
And, yes, I've kept lean while eat breads and pasta for years. Got some rigatoni sitting right next me that I'm going to consume for lunch. I'll be quite honest I don't know my very recent blood work, but as of a few years ago, everything was fine. Haven't had my blood pulled since, but my diet hasn't really changed in quite a while.
Do you seriously not know anyone who is in great shape and lean and eats wheat bread? Do you think endurance athletes don't eat grains? Boxers, swimmers, and so on. They are all shredded. Do you seriously think that although they may be lean that their blood work is fucked up because they eat grains?
Do you realize how stupid this sounds?
I know dozens of fighters in my area who pay almost NO attention to details like this and their RHR is in the 40s and they don't go over 10% bodyfat, ever. Everyone knows a gym rat who doesn't overeat but still eats pasta after they lift or at some point in the day and they are in great shape.
I really have no idea where you are going with this.
When you break it down, 25% of your diet is 125g of carbs coming from bread/pasta. That's a little more than a sandwich and a bowl of pasta on a 2000 calorie a day diet.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Zero.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Zero.
Tuco
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Dashel
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I definitely am. I used to eat Oatmeal every morning with whey, some fresh berries and grapes. Within 2 hours I was starving and had to eat something and I was tired. I never realized it or paid much attention until it was suggested to me that my oatmeal with fruit was basically a lot of sugar. When I eat something like eggs for breakfast I dont have that problem.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Yea, My buddy is a pro fighter. His diet is actually largely made of Grains. He's Spanish so it's pretty normal for him to eat that way. Actually I don't know any fighters who don't eat some grains. I know Miguel Cotto actually does the opposite and eat 0 fat when training.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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But you can still eat eggs and oatmeal. I actually eat eggbeaters. 100 calories of them is a shit ton of eggs. no fat/cholesterol. Give that a try with your oatmeal.
chaos
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Yes, absolutely. Why wouldn't I?
If you eat nothing but pasta or grains, sure that is no good. But a slice of toast for breakfast? A bowl of rice or pasta for dinner? As long as you exercise portion control,which goes for everything else as well, then why would it not be?
I've had vegetarians make a similar argument to me against eating meat. It is the same principle, though. If you eat nothing but chicken fried steak you are going to look like Andre the Giant minus about 3 feet of height. Moderation in all things.
Dashel
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I can show you pictures of myself from a year and a half ago that I was very lean and I was eating grains. Up until my mid 20's I could eat anything I wanted and be super lean. Post 30 I have to work at it. Now I have another 10-15 pounds to go to clean up my bulk weight and we'll see which way is easier for me to maintain.
I'm sure pro athletes eat all kinds of things that I wouldnt be able to
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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But think back.. what else were you eating? Was it really just the whole grains that caused your weight gain? Were you over eating, eating too much junk, drinking a lot of alcohol? I mean there could be a ton of factors here. Are you aware of your daily calorie intake currently?
Dashel
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Yes I can eat that. The point of this whole thing though is to see how I do if I dont eat that.
Dashel
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When I cut I basically ate paleo without really knowing it. Lots of lean meat, lots of veggies, cut sugar, moderate fruit. Big difference was oatmeal. I ate it then religiously every morning. (and continued to do so up until starting this plan) I avoided bread and pasta. I also counted calories and tracked on fitday.com. I got down to about 10% bf.
Now i am not counting calories because the weight is just coming off by itself. I feel fuller longer, but I also deliberately stop eating when I'm full. So I'm restricting calories obviously since I'm losing weight, but not counting yet. When the weight stalls I will count and get more strict. When I hit my goal, I'll return to going 80% strict and see what happens.
But you've admitted in this thread, in your Robb Wolf love fest, that calorie intake matters. You gained weight because of calorie intake, you were lean because of calorie intake.
chaos
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But again, you could apply that logic to anything based off whatever you wanted. Why though? Pasta and grains have more nutritional value than just sugar, which you seem to keep implying that they don't when they do. It is filling, tasty, healthy, cheap, I mean what's not to like?