Dashel
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Paleo 101: How and why you should eat like a Caveman
- Thread starter Dashel
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Tuco
I got Tuco'd!
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I'll believe it when I see it.
Other improvements in science will more than offset the reduction of obesity.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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What kind of meat? Are you saying that eating red/fatty meat on a daily basis is good for you long term? I would think that's what the cavemen were eating? I know for me, I can't eat a high fat diet with out my blood work turning to shit.
My link did contribute b/c it was showing research on how eating whole grains could prevent certain aliments and promote good health. You're simply stating that it can also be obtained without eating grains.
basically this..
Whole grains don't contain a magical nutrient that fights disease and improves health. It's the entire package-elements intact and working together-that's important.
The bran and fiber in whole grains make it more difficult for digestive enzymes to break down the starches into glucose. Soluble fiber helps lower cholesterol. Insoluble fiber helps move waste through the digestive tract. Fiber may also kindle the body's natural anticoagulants and so help prevent the formation of small blood clots that can trigger heart attacks or strokes. The collection of antioxidants prevents LDL cholesterol from reacting with oxygen. Some experts think this reaction is a key early step in the development of cholesterol-clogged arteries. Phytoestrogens (plant estrogens) found in whole grains may protect against some cancers. So might essential minerals, such as magnesium, selenium, copper, and manganese. These minerals may also help reduce the risk for heart disease and diabetes. And then there are the hundreds of substances that haven't yet been identified, some or many of which may play as-yet-undiscovered roles in health.
Adebisi
Clump of Cells
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So what you're saying is you did no research on what paleo diets actually consisted of before posting a link and arguing that grains are the way to go? Of course if you eat a high fat, high carb diet you are going to have screwed up bloodwork. That is the one thingno oneis suggesting.
All of those issues you listed? They have an even lower incidence when eating no or very low amounts of grains, if our ancestors and modern hunter-gatherer societies that still exist in isolation are any indications and scientifically, they are. You can't ignore them because they invalidate your pre-determined conclusion.
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Of course the hardasses live longer. There are SOOOO many differences between hunter-gatherer and agricultural societies(especially modern ones) that it's outright silly to even suggest eating grain was the culprit.article_sl said:
How about agricultural society allowed the better storage of food through bad seasons and thus the "weaklings" that would have died of starvation and malnutrition by the age of 15 instead live longer and get to die of "old age"?
Dashel
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Agriculture allowed us to have the civilization we do. Not having to move around all the time and having a fairly steady supply of food was certainly a huge step forward. As others have mentioned if we didnt have grain now we'd have mass starvation, or we'd never have gotten to this population count in the first place.
None of that changes the fact that the Western diet is associated with heart disease, obesity and diabetes. When groups that didnt eat that way start, they get the same results. This upward trend in obesity and corresponding diseases happens to have occured alongside the demonization of fats (especially saturated, along with cholesterol). When fats need to be cut, that means more carbs by default. A suggestion the US Dept of Agriculture happily adopted. Here's some of the trends that followed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071186/
We went through the "fat free" thing and are finally seeing people come around to the idea that 'fat doesn't make you fat'.
It had been common knowledge that bread and pasta make you fat. Now we seem to be pushing better bread and pasta, i.e. whole wheat / whole grain. Which yeah, may be better for you than refined but that doesnt mean it's good for you in general. You can eat it and be healthy, but I dont think having a quarter of your intake be from bread, pasta, bagels and cereal is particularly helpful.
None of that changes the fact that the Western diet is associated with heart disease, obesity and diabetes. When groups that didnt eat that way start, they get the same results. This upward trend in obesity and corresponding diseases happens to have occured alongside the demonization of fats (especially saturated, along with cholesterol). When fats need to be cut, that means more carbs by default. A suggestion the US Dept of Agriculture happily adopted. Here's some of the trends that followed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1071186/
So less fat, and more carbs (potatoes, pizza, mac and cheese, soda, juices)Study_sl said:
We went through the "fat free" thing and are finally seeing people come around to the idea that 'fat doesn't make you fat'.
It had been common knowledge that bread and pasta make you fat. Now we seem to be pushing better bread and pasta, i.e. whole wheat / whole grain. Which yeah, may be better for you than refined but that doesnt mean it's good for you in general. You can eat it and be healthy, but I dont think having a quarter of your intake be from bread, pasta, bagels and cereal is particularly helpful.
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No idea who you're arguing with here. No one is saying you should eat fat free diets. You're citing cases of carb abuse as proof that any carbs are bad. Abuse is bad. It's that simple.
Maybe you'll get it this time. Probably not.
And yes, 25% of your diet as carbs sounds perfectly reasonable. You want to blather on about insulin spikes? How about the stress you're putting on your GI tract by making it digest fats and proteins all day for the energy it needs? BTW, I have no evidence to back that up, about as much as your absurd claims.
Maybe you'll get it this time. Probably not.
And yes, 25% of your diet as carbs sounds perfectly reasonable. You want to blather on about insulin spikes? How about the stress you're putting on your GI tract by making it digest fats and proteins all day for the energy it needs? BTW, I have no evidence to back that up, about as much as your absurd claims.
Celebrindal
Golden Squire
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I don't know why you people are still arguing.
Eat what you want folks, no one gives a fuck if you eat Chicken nuggets inside a rolled up pizza burrito with rice.
And until people show pics, and practice what you preach, who gives a shit.
Eat what you want folks, no one gives a fuck if you eat Chicken nuggets inside a rolled up pizza burrito with rice.
And until people show pics, and practice what you preach, who gives a shit.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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So eating grains puts you at a higher risk even tho those studies say they put you at a lower risk. The study is telling you to add them to your diet lol...why would they do research On not eating them when they are telling you the benefits of eating them??
Wtf.. I'm confused.. When you say lower amount how much do you mean? The studies suggest 25% whole grains..
I do know the paleo diet.it just varies from person to person. Some say no grains, you guys say some grains. Then you debate how much is too much. Dashel says 25% of whole grains in your diet is too much. It just keeps evolving to support arguments.
And I agree this is retarded at this point lol. Eat w/e you want and be happy!
Not the fad paleo diet, I am referring to what HG societiesactuallyate. On a diet like that, the issues you listed that whole grains "solve" are non-existent. Not reduced, as with 25% grains, butgone.If gone isn't better than reduced, then you have very funny metrics.
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Well, I can state with 100% certainty that The Master is infinitely more retarded than Dashel. At least Dashel is willing to somewhat acknowledge new data and doesn't worship Paleo as if its a religion.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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.. is it? Sure the "modern Western diet" of fast food and shitty processed garbage all day probably is. But do you think that is really reflective of a "Western diet" in the same way you would talk about a "Mediterranean diet" or a "Japanese diet?" A more traditional American diet would not have looked like what we see today, and corresponding rates of heart disease, obesity, and diabetes were much lower only a few decades ago when that was the norm.
iannis
Musty Nester
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The thing is that HG societies didn't invent wheat, or rice, or barley. I'm sure that early societies ate grains when they could find them, and I will bet that they were a preferred food. They've got everything going for them once you realize there are some very simple methods to employ in order to manipulate them.
If grains really were bad for you the way you seem to think, we never would have survived to be asking the question of are grains bad for you.
NO, THEY AREN'T.
If grains really were bad for you the way you seem to think, we never would have survived to be asking the question of are grains bad for you.
NO, THEY AREN'T.
Dashel
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I always hear it referred to as the "Western Diet". But to your point yeah it's been much worse over the past 40 years. Is it the fast food? I dont think it is, or at least that's not all of it. I never eat fast food and trust me if I didnt pay attention to what I eat I'd be what I consider fat.
An example:http://www.npr.org/2011/03/24/132745...the-world-sick
As to why, it's probably a of things. 40-50 years ago you had more single income families with someone home cooking dinner. You had less sugar in everything. You didnt fear butter and eggs and you knew to moderate bread and pasta or you'd get fat. All the literature at the time told you to moderate carbs for weight loss.
Then came Ancel Keys with the lipid hypothesis, which made us afraid of fat. Removal of fat meant added sugar to food to make it palatable. The increase of two income homes making home cooked meals less frequent, and also brought us things like food with longer shelf lives so we didnt have to go shopping as often. Pre prepared meals, fast food and all of that.
As someone mentioned above, I dont give a shit what anyone chooses to eat. If people are happy and healthy eating your current diet then god bless. If you're finding yourself fat, lethargic and feeling generally crappy you might want to cut sugar, eat less processed foods, moderate refined carbs and see how things go.
chaos
Buzzfeed Editor
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Well of course you'd be fat if you didn't watch what you eat. You live in the richest country on Earth where food is the cheapest and you have the most access. People have to moderate now or they'll get fat, nothing has changed in that regard really except these fad ideas come along every now and then, like fat free stuff or Atkins or whatever.
I understand what people mean when they say "Western diet" but it isn't the reality of what food in this country was up until fairly recently.
I understand what people mean when they say "Western diet" but it isn't the reality of what food in this country was up until fairly recently.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Ok.. so by not eating whole grains I don't have to worry about Cardiovascular disease, Type 2 diabetes, cancer, digestive health, and my overall health will be better. Great!
Essentially, that Harvard Study is suggesting me to eat something that will have the opposite effect of what they say it will.
Again, Harvard is comparing eating more refined flour vs eating a smaller amount of whole grains. They are not even considering the option of simply eating no or very small amounts of grains. That is a change that will have the effects they say it will. It is just that not eating any or eating very tiny quantities will have an even greater effect, at least according to scientific studies done on the diet of HG societies, both modern and ancient. Harvard wanted to answer one specific question (Refined flour vs whole grains in a diet) and they answered it. But intentionally narrowing your scope like that leaves out a lot of data.
@Iannis: They ate them when they found them wild. Which simply due to the way plants grow was about once a year, the bulk of any carbs they ate were vegetables and occasionally fruit.