if brad gives out just a little bit of info about this project, i will be so filled with holiday cheer i will shit candy canes!
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Abefroman
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 12,594
- 11,937
How about the fact that most people have moved on and aren't in college or have the time to spend playing a mmo 12 hours a day anymore. How about the fact that most wow type mmo aren't as successful because many people if they wanted to play WoW just play WoW? The major point is getting the investing to make a game like EQ. Fuck man lighten the fuck up.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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This is a very good point. Can't be pure EQ - there has to be soloable content and every class has to have some soloability - just not the extreme soloability that is WoW. Can't be true old school hardcore fuck you no-soloing classes if you can't find a group when you login. So EQ-ish with VG classes/combat-ish and some grindable solo content (2/3 dot mob equivalents for VG) so if you login for an hour each night on the week and can't find a group you can do something to advance your character.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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"Most" people also don't play WoW, since your arbitrary standard could be read to mean all of the planet's 7 billion people. So therefore, using your reasoning, there shouldn't be any more WoW clones made. And yet the gaming companies keep churning them out to "fail" over and over again.
What makes a game popular is if it is fun and made well. EQ redone could be popular but only if it were made well and fun. Would you like it? Probably not. But you do not represent "most" people anymore than anyone else on this board does. Your mistake is believing that only your likes matter, while nobody elses does.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Neither of them appears to be anything like an EQ or VG clone.
Permadeath (ToA), PvP everywhere (DO) skill-only advancement (ToA and DO). EQ was a PvE game, class-less games are purely FOTM and take away from character identification, and Permadeath is just stupid.
Brad may be notorious but at least he's well known so his kickstarter will get a lot more coverage than otherwise. I looked up a few of the other people he's working with and none of them rang any bells. I do want to know what's up with the mass love for metal music by San Diego area MMO developers?
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Just out of curiosity... at the height of your addictions to any given MMORPG... how much did you guys play? At what level did you play?
At the height of my EQ play, I was in one of the 2 best (we traded blows) guilds on my server. I was 17ish, it was during Kunark & Velious. The absolute most I played was a 5-6 hour stretch, and certainly not every night. By the time WoW came along I was 22 and again, raided at the top level in the world (my guild was like 3rd worldwide to clear BWL). I was working part time ( 16 hours - bartending), going to school full time (14hours class/week), had a girlfriend, and maybe played 4 x 4 hour sessions a week.... I was living at home though... I think that's what allowed me to do it.
Now I'm 30 with a wife, a son, and a house... My gameplay time now looks more like 6 x 1.5-2 hour sessions per week. I wonder if I could get away with 4 x 4 again, and I wonder if that's still enough to be competitive.
At the height of my EQ play, I was in one of the 2 best (we traded blows) guilds on my server. I was 17ish, it was during Kunark & Velious. The absolute most I played was a 5-6 hour stretch, and certainly not every night. By the time WoW came along I was 22 and again, raided at the top level in the world (my guild was like 3rd worldwide to clear BWL). I was working part time ( 16 hours - bartending), going to school full time (14hours class/week), had a girlfriend, and maybe played 4 x 4 hour sessions a week.... I was living at home though... I think that's what allowed me to do it.
Now I'm 30 with a wife, a son, and a house... My gameplay time now looks more like 6 x 1.5-2 hour sessions per week. I wonder if I could get away with 4 x 4 again, and I wonder if that's still enough to be competitive.
It's like people forget that teenagers still exist with all the time in the world to piss around on MMOs. Crazy as shit, but there were 30-year-old people with kids and wives and all that when I was the dude who had too much free time.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Oh I agree... I'm not saying demand isn't there or anything.
I just keep hearing 'oh we're all old we don't have time any more', and when I add up how much time I'm just goofing off in the evening while the kid is asleep and the wife is doing whatever.... I just start to think maybe I COULD still hardcore raid
Tauro
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 371
- 26
I hope this will be a PVE-only game. Full-PVP/Permadeath-KS wont be funded. An extra server with PVP enabled is ok, as long as no time is spent on "balancing" for PVP.
Regarding content creation , a lot depends on the tech they use.... see EQnext /EQNLandmark. That tech would really benefit a small game, but i dont think Smed will give/sell Brad the right to use the EQN-engine. Everybody here is crying about Unity, but that is the only other engine i can think of where people could do content for free and "donate" to Brad.
It will be very interesting to see the structure of the KS. Will he pitch a "full game" or will he do stages like Pathfinder. I hope we wont see a f2p game, a cheap monthly sub (~5?) would be much better for a small niche game. With 50k subs that is still a lot of money, even 10k subs would be enough for a small team/game i think.
Regarding content creation , a lot depends on the tech they use.... see EQnext /EQNLandmark. That tech would really benefit a small game, but i dont think Smed will give/sell Brad the right to use the EQN-engine. Everybody here is crying about Unity, but that is the only other engine i can think of where people could do content for free and "donate" to Brad.
It will be very interesting to see the structure of the KS. Will he pitch a "full game" or will he do stages like Pathfinder. I hope we wont see a f2p game, a cheap monthly sub (~5?) would be much better for a small niche game. With 50k subs that is still a lot of money, even 10k subs would be enough for a small team/game i think.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 4,903
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Pretty much. I was in my early 30's when I played EQ. Worked, took care of the family, etc. Was also in the top guild on our server. It was all about time management. You didn't need to play 24/7 to be in the best guild and play at a top level.
One of our best healers was a grandmother. And we had people from europe in the guild also. They had very strange hours. We had a couple of no lifers also, but it wasn't required. Just be good at your class and show up for most raids.
But we did raid quite a bit. So evenings were booked 4 or 5 nights a week for a couple years there. I'm not into doing that again, but I'm sure there are plenty who would be. And I don't need to be top of the server again. I had a lot of friends on the server who loved EQ and never even made it to the endgame.
Wasn't directed at you.Oh I agree... I'm not saying demand isn't there or anything.
I just keep hearing 'oh we're all old we don't have time any more', and when I add up how much time I'm just goofing off in the evening while the kid is asleep and the wife is doing whatever.... I just start to think maybe I COULD still hardcore raid
The success of the Dark/Demon's souls franchise says to me that people can love punishing gameplay, if it's not a giant heap of shit. I think MMOs in general have just been bad in general, and the success of wow isn't because of how 'casual' it was, but because it was a polished product followed by a decade of games that tried unsuccessfully to copy it, but did it worse.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I'm wondering, do you have any expertise regarding the zones/seamless topic, or is that just conjecture? I'm largely clueless about it but would assume wether zoneless is little extra effort or an expensive undertaking depends on the engine he licenses. I dont think zones are a big issue or stigma anyway, it certainly wasnt an issue in GW2.
Flying mounts are probably a bad design decision all-around, might as well allow people to pin-point teleport anywhere in the world. The increased world design load is a secondary concern at best.
I'm in favor of soloability (but then, all my classes in EQ could solo too), as long as it isnt the sole focus. But time requirements are a straw man, there are plenty of people with time on their hands playing video games. Just because I or you dont have the time doesnt mean he should move away from the EQ model.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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I think the reception dark souls had doesnt really translate into the assumption it'll work for an EQ-style MMO. Alot of the "difficulty" of EQ was social in nature, and (correct me if I am wrong) but I think you can play until ragequit in Dark souls whenever you want without wasting your time at Seb zone-in because much of the game in engineered to favor multiplayer.
Denaut
Trump's Staff
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Seamless in general is challenging because of the technical logistics of moving things around, and the dual nature of online games. Having an MMO means you have two components, the client which would handle the graphic/asset streaming, and the server which would handle all of the game logic streaming. Those 2 things are very different and to make it worse they have to constantly communicate with one another.
It's not that it can't be done, it is more a question of whether it is worth the cost of doing it.
I think you really miss the allure of Dark/Demon Souls. It isn't because it has a steep learning curve, but more because of the nature of the game, world, and combat.
The problem with most MMOs, and even WOW is they have moved away from the diku model and more to the Zynga model. I'm not sure moving away from Zynga and towards minecraft is a better answer.
In regards to time, if EQ had come out when I was 16 or 19 I would've been screwed as I had zero time. In my late 20s, it was perfect to eat my soul as I had tons of time and could actually play at work. I don't think time is an issue, the bigger problem is a valid use of time.
Most teenagers today are not growing up on a PC like we did 10 or 20 years ago. They are growing up with tablets and consoles. I'd guess the real WOW killer will be something that is super casual friendly and draws in the nextgen on a PS4 or Xbox One.
I am not the nextgen. Give me a cool MMO based solely on legacy AD&D with tons of content, no kiddie shit or anime, and a fuckton of new stuff rolled out with very rare items I want to spend tons of time trying to get.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
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WoW isnt gonna get killed my any MMO, it was "killed" by MOBAs a while back. More retired instead of killed like most good MMOs though, they still carry home the money at Blizzard but the focus has shifted from how can we milk this to what do we milk next. Anyway that's certainly offtopic to our interests here. I'd be happy with half a mill of paying players across 10 servers for this game IF that's enough to keep it running with enough staff to add some content regularly. That's far from killing any competing game. If 50k people on one server pay the bills, in a way that'd be even better but I'm not sure it's enough revenue for timely expansions.
This is exactly what I was trying to say though. It's not that difficulty instantly turns everyone off, It's that there have to be solid gameplay mechanics behind it. I don't think people are allergic to challenge, they're just sick of stagnation. I don't want something just like EQ/wow, but I would like a game where there's interesting combat, consequences, and challenge.