Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

kudos_sl said:

I will never play an MMO that doesn't allow me to get drunk while playing it. If I can't drink a couple beers and still be good enough to accomplish what I need to do for my class then it's a garbage MMO. I was drinking during almost every EQ / WoW highlight in my life that I can think of.

I remember a couple years ago I had an entire bottle of wine (never again) while grinding out dungeons in WoW tanking. It went from fucking boring to amazing by the 3rd glass.

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That's fucking awesome!

Flight_sl said:

just that the 'M in MMO' line is a fallacy.

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It is absolutely not a fallacy, but the truth. I'd love to see where this was 'debunked'.

It's massively multiplayer, not just multiplayer.

Dumar_sl said:

It is absolutely not a fallacy, but the truth. I'd love to see where this was 'debunked'.

It's massively multiplayer, not just multiplayer.

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You're right, it is. However, no where does "massively multiplayer" mean, "massively forced grouping", despite your hopes otherwise.

Kirun_sl said:

You're right, it is. However, no where does "massively multiplayer" mean, "massively forced grouping", despite your hopes otherwise.

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Massively multiplayer has in the very fucking definitionmassively interactive. Ultima Online, EverQuest, DAoC, and AC had more interactions that occurred in this massively setting than any recent modern MMO, and it's nowhere close. That is, for example, in UO, a plethora of different interactions could occur to you or by you at any one time, anywhere in the entire world, under many different circumstances. WoW onwward, these interactions are removed or restricted in a number of different ways, from segregation of players in discrete, controlled numbers (instances, battlegrounds) to even the types of interactions they can do to you or you to them (e.g., I can't steal that dk's nightshade, and actually, he can cast a spell without any nightshade, so two gameplay elements have been removed: getting/keeping the nightshade safe and my attempting to steal it). Compound these interactions and you see the massively has all but been removed the further along we regress in this shitpile of an industry.

And FYI: WoW was not successful due to its game design paradigms. It could've had the exact same systems as EverQuest and been just as successful. It was a success due to the level of expertise of Blizzard's engineering and animation teams. Everything else didn't matter. Give another company that level of technical expertise, and we'll see if there's a market for a real MMO again.

imijj_sl said:

The reason there hasn't been a hardcore MMO in a long time is that publishersthinkthat it's not worth it/impossible/whatever. Maybe they're right, maybe not. But the fact that a bunch of small publishers have failed doesn't really mean anything one way or another. I mean, plenty of huge budget themeparks have failed as well, and they keep getting made.

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Its the movie industry... how many truly good movies are there ? New original ideas ? Very few.... what gets made ? The same shit over and over... Its too bad this happened but it did... at least there are gems out there, Dark Souls, Skyrim... but they are too few and far between.. .

Dumar_sl said:

And FYI: WoW was not successful due to its game design paradigms. It could've had the exact same systems as EverQuest and been just as successful. It was a success due to the level of expertise of Blizzard's engineering and animation teams. Everything else didn't matter. Give another company that level of technical expertise, and we'll see if there's a market for a real MMO again.

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You're right...instancing had nothing to do with WoW's ability to provide enough content to support 11 million players.

Tantrik_sl said:

You're right...instancing had nothing to do with WoW's ability to provide enough content to support 11 million players.

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If the engine was shitty and unresponsive like any of the garbage heap MMOs such as Shadowbane or Darkfall, no, instancing wouldn't have mattered.

Zantox_sl said:

They is not to make soloing worthless, it is to offer a mix of content. What WoW and Rift both did was to offer a leveling experience that allowed you to solo all the way to max, but at the same time offered you a big reward (fun, items, diversity in experience) in playing through instanced dungeons. If you only allow people to effectively play grouped, you aren't going to be attracting a sizable audience for a sustained period of time.

There are too many other gaming/entertainment experiences out there competing for people's attention for them to want to have to spend a material portion of their gaming time doing little to nothing while getting a group together. One might even say that by offering compelling solo content, you keep people in the game, doing something, remaining available for invites to group content. Otherwise if a person logs on and finds his friends are already in a dungeon run or are offline, he is apt to log off or switch games. Having the mix of content is a win win: the player gets to play an enjoyable game while being available for potential group invites.

Solo content also helps your newer players by allowing them to progress where otherwise there as nobody to group with, obtain gear needed for advanced grouping content, etc, without having to have players much further along stop their progression to come help.

Think about the ecosystem of players: What are all of the things a player needs to do to have fun, remove as many obstacles as possible, and let them go hog wild. There is a reason we don't see games that require 20-30 minutes of regging up time any more: it was boring as hell and made sessions dominated by administrative work and not playing the game.

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Everything you just said is the reason this industry is failing. This entire post sums up everything that is wrong with MMO's and no matter how many games follow this formula and continue to fail, I still see posts like this informing us this is what we need to do.

Guys want to start a pool to help convo out, he is trying to sell rocks as meteorites, it's bad

i really hated instances in eq. it took away the feeling of accomplishment. that on top of those ring of fire timed instances while doable took all the fun out of taking your time playing with an encounter. its probably why i have had no desire to raid since then.

I actually enjoy the EQ Trilogy era gameplay. I often see people claim it's some sort of "first love" or "lost childhood" syndrome, but EQ wasn't my first MMO, and I was fucking 30 in 1999. That's right, I was older in 1999 than many of you are right now. That's the level of consciousness and awareness I had while playing EQ, and to me, it just seems like a few years ago.

Anyway, as I said, I enjoy actually sitting in a room, with a full group, grinding mobs for exp and loot, for hours upon hours. I despise action based RPGs, preferring the more tactical, resource-management based combat of the DIKU style classic EQ. So for me, an HD EQ remake would be perfect.

That being said, I will admit to feeling relieved when I learned that dungeons in WoW were private instances, and no one could just come along to grief/kill steal from my group. Raiding was just me and my 39 most skilled guildmates kicking ass to get Ony, MC, and BWL on farm. No cock blocking or ninja looting. It was nice.

See, unlike many here, I despise in game drama. That is not gameplay to me. I derive no pleasure from beating out others and denying them content, and I just feel guilty whenever I kill anyone in PvP. So, for me, the instancing was not the big issue. For me it's the complete and utter loss of crowd control classes, the homogenization of classes so everyone can do everything and fill any role, the loss of meaningful class interdependence, the randomly generated loot, and especially the complete lack of fear from dying.

Also, I refuse to play another MMO on fucking rails. Fuck. That. Shit. Fuck Rift, fuck SWTOR, fuck all that on-rails, zone-a to zone-b to zone-c leveling path quest chain bullshit. That and pay to win are deal breakers for me.

Also, how about that Pantheon eh? (Figured I'd at least pretend this thread is still on topic).

Agonizing the Bait Master_sl said:

Guys want to start a pool to help convo out, he is trying to sell rocks as meteorites, it's bad

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You have a really weird obsession with me.. Creep!

kudos_sl said:

You are Aradune until Aradune returns.

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you too..

Convo_sl said:

you too..

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Hehe