tad10
Elisha Dushku
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- 595
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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- 595
What you described has nothing to do with EQ. At its core it was a game that required grouping up to achieve most of its rewards (XP, money, items).
Soloing to cap and shit like you described are precisely what is most fucked about modern MMOs (along with instancing and the quest grind). So really, take that I want to solo elite mob shit out if here -_- Well, unless you're a Necro, and as long as you remember Necros aren't invited to any of the good parties.
Fair enough. My comment was intended to touch on the fact that I enjoyed the interactivity of TERAs combat, more than it was advocacy for being able to solo your way through the game. I agree with you.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,547
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Sometimes I wonder if tad ever played EQ. People soloed in EQ all the fucking time, and it was rewarded so strongly I don't think it's been matched by a game since. EQ was the one game I played where everyone either soloed as much as possible if they could (far more classes than people want to admit), or were bitterly jealous if they couldn't. Talk about a solo-centric game! Which is why you had people soloing to max and refusing to group even when invited. No thanks, the exp is better solo, I don't have to deal with idiots getting me killed, AND I get to keep all the drops!
It would be an interesting case study to analyze some of the EQ lovers and how the things they rail against are all the things that were created or started by the thing they cherish most, like soloing and instanced dungeons and quest grinding (orc belts anyone?). Isn't that delusional or something? Or is tad saying stuff like that is what's fucked about modern mmos, but wasn't at all what was fucked about EQ. Because it was in EQ, it was great, but because it's in newer games, it's shit.
It would be an interesting case study to analyze some of the EQ lovers and how the things they rail against are all the things that were created or started by the thing they cherish most, like soloing and instanced dungeons and quest grinding (orc belts anyone?). Isn't that delusional or something? Or is tad saying stuff like that is what's fucked about modern mmos, but wasn't at all what was fucked about EQ. Because it was in EQ, it was great, but because it's in newer games, it's shit.
EQs quest grinding (such as the orc belts) seemed to me to be a little different than the quest grinds in modern MMOs. In eq, collecting and turning in quest items was a minor supplement to the main method of gaining levels, killing mobs.
In modern MMOs killing mobs is a subcomponent of the quest grind.
In modern MMOs killing mobs is a subcomponent of the quest grind.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,547
- 11,831
In modern games, you go through a zone, experience the area, lore, story, while doing quests. In EQ, you killed the same orcs until they no longer gave exp or spammed general chat with your willingness to buy orc belts so you could use the same quest as much and as long as possible to get every last shred of exp from it.
I don't think either system is perfect. I'm just pointing out it's a bit rose-colored to pretend EQ didn't have the same evils, even if you perceive them as lesser. Which is the point. It's perception of the things EQ did certainly have, not that EQ simply didn't have many of the things people claim is what's ruining new games.
Jysin
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,458
- 4,345
The people that were soloing to level were doing it (mostly) in places no one gave a shit about. If you wanted the real drops in Karnors, Seb, Velks, etc you damn well had a group. I dont care what class you were. There were the very odd exceptions with Shaman doing the odd WW dragon or Bard / Enc using charm exploits, but the dungeons that mattered and the gear that mattered were done by solid groups. I dont give a fuck about johnny necro fear kiting in the OT for xp. Have at all those rhinos and cockatrice you like... you can find me in HS / Seb after the good shit.
There shouldn't even be elite mobs. There should be normal mobs which beat your ass and named which REALLY beat your ass.
Heallun
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 1,100
- 1,073
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,408
- 185
I like the idea of quests being a bit more random, meaning they present themselves by exploring the world rather than driving you through the world. I like finding objects things by doing a dungeon and then "going to town" to see who might be interested in them, it makes you wonder why we need these "!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" ... perhaps just for special lore quests.
I would say remove kill quests and fetch quests and allow the players to find things i.e. you talk to NPC in town 1 who says "i want some good wine, can't find any around here" then you happen to recall seeing a wine shop in another town... And mob drops, there could be special items dropped from mobs and/or found in dungeons... allow people to dive into the content, then go turn things in without having the quest first.
Stuff like that... anything that makes the world feel more authentic and less like a game IMO.
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
- 2,385
- 277
Jealous warriors detected!
Jokes aside you guys should be better then that. I mean, necros not good in groups? did we play the same game? They might have wanted groups less often, and the bad ones might have sucked in groups out of lack of experience, but necros that knew their class were great to have in any group.
I dont want bland class balance like all post-EQ games must have (because of pvp balance, one of the great evils of MMO design). But I also want all classes in this new game to be able to solo with some difficulty (none should have it easy, not even necros or druids) and I want all of them to have a purpose in groups. Let the player pick his class, spec his AA/skills/whatever to his preference, but choice should be there. If I want to solo and blow all my building points on that by all means let me be weaker in groups.
Out of curiousity, what percentage did EQ have for solo/grouping play? I'd think it is somewhere between 40-60% which is a fairly even split no matter which side is the 60.
I like the idea of going through a story to experience now and then. But I'd want the xp to not be mostly quest-based, with the stories providing alternate rewards like skills mods, items, faction, spells, vanity items, and so on. Maybe even xp but not in the WoW style. If completing an long quest that took me through some camps and two dungeons gives me good xp that's ok. But stories/quests should be uncommon, and all the common shit like bear asses/orc belts should be repeatable ad nauseum like in EQ. Set the heroic quests apart from commoner drudgery.
Different questions to what people might like or dislike:
- npc speech bubbles, yes or no? I actually like it, keeps me looking at the world and not the chat box. That is assuming anyone reads npc text (I do!).
- in game maps, yes or no? I would want crude maps that do NOT come with gps function. Possibly no maps until you acquire one for the zone in question, bought, earned or even player-made with a tradeskill. Until then learn your way around or get lost in the woods and die.
