Soygen
The Dirty Dozen For the Price of One
- 28,431
- 44,761
Horizons was such an epic failure that people don't even remember it for the list of failures.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Erronius
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 17,227
- 44,552
Reminds me a little of"just pop enrage"
I came to EQ2 relatively late, and my impression was more along the lines of"Well, if this is 'better' than what it had been, then I'm glad I missed that part because this is still terrible on a number of levels"
EQ2 wasn't a relative failure because WOW was 'a giant and there was no winning', EQ2 was a relative failure for reasons all its own. Even at its best EQ2 was never more than an average or mediocre MMO.
Kuro
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 8,932
- 23,480
The reasoning behind the shared EXP debt in EQ2 made sense. It was dumb, and wouldn't work in the wild, but there was logic behind it. Force people to be better at the game by making them absolute pariahs if they suck. Didn't work that way in practice, just made shit miserable and everyone forgot the bad player's name after the kick, so they could come back any time.
Jysin
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 6,457
- 4,345
Implementation was everything though, right? As a former warrior in EQ1, I see the idea of sharing the xp loss. Tanks would often die and the group could recover. The tank would generally be the first to die and over a period of time lose more xp than most classes. But all people remember in EQ2 was Soandso was invited to group, he died all the way across the open world on the way to the group, entire group ate his debt.
I had far less of an issue with the debt as I did with locked encounters / buff restrictions. It was a great feeling and sense of community in EQ1, running through the world and on your way to your destination you run across a noobie or two and toss a heal or buff on them. EQ2 made this entirely impossible. You flat out could not buff anyone out of your group (maintained concentration slots to boot), plus you couldn't even throw a heal on someone engaged in an encounter. The devs just sank the entire "community" aspect of the game right out of the gate.
All of this was brought up in Beta, yet zero fucks were given.
Kuro
Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
- 8,932
- 23,480
EQ2 devs seemed absolutely terrified of the "emergent" game play in EQ1, and wanted to make sure the shackles were firmly in place from the outset of EQ2.
And then like a week after release you had all the tanks spamming group buffs for uncontestable ultra-threat, and "DPS Berserkers" whinging on the forums that they couldn't drop aggro ever.
And then like a week after release you had all the tanks spamming group buffs for uncontestable ultra-threat, and "DPS Berserkers" whinging on the forums that they couldn't drop aggro ever.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,525
- 12,565
Yeah but underneath EQ2 was an uninspired shit hole. WoW had good content at the time. Even if EQ2 would have ran like a dream it suffered from ridiculous design decisions and horrible uninspired placement of robotic mobs all standing in packs. It was so fucking awful and unbalanced. EoF took it in the right direction but after level 20, you would be thrust back into the shit that was vanilla. Then dipshit pony tail completely fucked it with Velious.
Vanguard was the same damn mess which shouldn't surprise anyone given its development cycle. Which is why we need all the relics to get out of here and get locked in a zynga cage for life.
Needless to say the issues with both of those hunks of trash go well beyond optimization.
Drajakur
Molten Core Raider
- 567
- 462
Man, it is depressing to see how many of those failures I played. Some random thoughts.
Warhammer had the hands-down best 1-11 MMO experience in any game. I can't remember how many times I leveled a character to 11, only to discover that everything beyond that was trash and lag. What a shame.
Asheron's Call 2 is missing from the list. I actually convinced a cynical friend to buy that game before realizing how absolutely awful it was. Some of the concepts (player-built settlements) were awesome at the time but have still never been implemented in any realistic manner. My friend is still mad to this day about the wasted hours in AC2.
Tabula Rasa was another terrible game. I so wanted a sci-fi RPG to work. And it never did. God what a terrible game.
There was another terrible MMO I played with nightmares and weird monsters that only came out in the dark. Can't remember it. It was terrible.
I'd also count Conan as a terrible experience. I remember giving up on that game after my first visit to a major city. I just had no desire to ever log back in again.
EQ2 was my biggest disappointment. I bought a PC specifically to run it at launch and it failed miserably. So much was wrong with that game. It eventually got better but, by that time, I was playing (and enjoying) WoW just like everyone else.
So many wasted hours....
Warhammer had the hands-down best 1-11 MMO experience in any game. I can't remember how many times I leveled a character to 11, only to discover that everything beyond that was trash and lag. What a shame.
Asheron's Call 2 is missing from the list. I actually convinced a cynical friend to buy that game before realizing how absolutely awful it was. Some of the concepts (player-built settlements) were awesome at the time but have still never been implemented in any realistic manner. My friend is still mad to this day about the wasted hours in AC2.
Tabula Rasa was another terrible game. I so wanted a sci-fi RPG to work. And it never did. God what a terrible game.
There was another terrible MMO I played with nightmares and weird monsters that only came out in the dark. Can't remember it. It was terrible.
I'd also count Conan as a terrible experience. I remember giving up on that game after my first visit to a major city. I just had no desire to ever log back in again.
EQ2 was my biggest disappointment. I bought a PC specifically to run it at launch and it failed miserably. So much was wrong with that game. It eventually got better but, by that time, I was playing (and enjoying) WoW just like everyone else.
So many wasted hours....
Jait
Molten Core Raider
- 5,035
- 5,317
I can't give you any shit because you've been shouting this at people as long as I have, but it's way too fucking late. This should have happened in 2003.
Remember John Capozzi? Remember him, Brad? He made those worlds you half-assed dreamed of. He sent me your design docs for Vanguard the day he quit. I'm still not done reading them. They are longer than the Bible. Half of it was written in feces and 10 pages read "I hate Flanders. Praise Jesus." And fuck Elidroth too for that matter. The King of Originality whose name is a god damned derivative of a derivative. Half of what's left of this industry is nothing more than antisocial fat fucks (ok a lot are skinny) whose cliques and complete lack of anything resembling competence in their field chased the actual geniuses out of the industry forever. (Trion is cool) Fucks sake I think GZ barely gets mentioned in EQ's biography. Geoffrey "fucking" Zatkins...gets barely any mention and only his initials...
He made your fucking game work! It did not work otherwise. You were 4 guys sitting around jerking each other off until he made your game do something.
I think he sells cars now. Or drugs. Or drug trailers. Or something.
Fuck you.
Palum
what Suineg set it to
- 26,510
- 41,248
lol @ Auto Assault. I had one of, if not the, first tanks in the game. Funny enough, the power to weight ratio was so terrible it could barely go up hills. I completed one mission with it and was driving with my friend like a BAMF just murdering things on the way to an outpost. Drive down a hill after completing a quest and run around the base, blah blah. We go to leave and the tank did not have enough torque to travel back up the hill. The base was in a crater. We spent 3-4 hours trying desperately to rescue the tank from the crater including creative ramming with multiple players and all that. Nothing worked, just quit.
Sevens
Log Wizard
- 5,780
- 17,514
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,547
- 11,831
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 8,767
- 617
Erronius
<WoW Guild Officer>
- 17,227
- 44,552
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,525
- 12,565
Absolutely 100% spot on.I can't give you any shit because you've been shouting this at people as long as I have, but it's way too fucking late. This should have happened in 2003.
Remember John Capozzi? Remember him, Brad? He made those worlds you half-assed dreamed of. He sent me your design docs for Vanguard the day he quit. I'm still not done reading them. They are longer than the Bible. Half of it was written in feces and 10 pages read "I hate Flanders. Praise Jesus." And fuck Elidroth too for that matter. The King of Originality whose name is a god damned derivative of a derivative. Half of what's left of this industry is nothing more than antisocial fat fucks (ok a lot are skinny) whose cliques and complete lack of anything resembling competence in their field chased the actual geniuses out of the industry forever. (Trion is cool) Fucks sake I think GZ barely gets mentioned in EQ's biography. Geoffrey "fucking" Zatkins...gets barely any mention and only his initials...
He made your fucking game work! It did not work otherwise. You were 4 guys sitting around jerking each other off until he made your game do something.
I think he sells cars now. Or drugs. Or drug trailers. Or something.
Fuck you.
The cluster fuck of the good ol' boys club damned near took down a genre. And now those same idiots are trying to claw their way back into it. Due credit never went to the people that actually deserved it. Scapegoats as to why games were failures, each one covering their own ass in front of the hancho but never the actual truth - Which was they can't design their way out of a ziplock bag and more design meetings ended up being a dog and pony show of ego stroking morons who were finally notable in a virtual world because they kept getting kicked off the swing set until 16 years of age. Even then, other talent got them there, and they stifled those people to take credit.
Funny how the people that actually pushed the genre into the mainstream weren't founding creators - it ended up being some players sick to death of the relics and ended up turning the genre into a billions of dollars per year market segment.
Utnayan
F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3
- 16,525
- 12,565
Holy shit this is probably the most useless shit I have ever seen used as promotional material. I am going to copy paste the announcement of the (Drum Roll)Cleric Class!
NO WAY.
I HAVE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE THIS BEFORE!
Meanwhile, from the pages from an original D&D module and something every human has known with or without playing a video game... ever...
Mind... Fucking.... Blown.
Seriously. I have to ask. How? How? Is he on drugs again that he somehow thinks any of this 1972 Era shit is relevant to even release as news about his game? I mean, I wouldn't have even said anything if there wasn't this long drawn out speech ahead of it.
Something they have wanted to do. That sure was some secret mechanical super game changing design they have going on there. Right now, every game designer everywhere from California to the Mason Dixon line is copy pasting this shit into all their games. McQuaid I think you turned over the hat and killed the cat a little too soon here. Did you make sure to patent this shit first?
At this point, I do firmly believe, this entire game is a troll.
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
- 6,662
- 4,506
lol, you thought they actually would have enough creativity between them to come up with original classes? Seriously, the intelligent and creative people have better things to do than help some two bit washed up glory hog of a game developer make a last chance run as salvaging his train wreck of a career.
I just wanted to point out it was mentioned that the game and therefore classes were going to be very traditional with a little extra flavor added in. They are also trying to appeal to new generations of potential players who may not have ever played an MMO before. Your opinion is funny and true, but what they are trying to do really isn't any different than any other fantasy based game that has cleric and other D&D style classes in them. While we may have played tons of MMOs and table top games for years, there are new generations that have not and therefore have no idea what a Cleric, Warrior, Paladin, etc are.
You are correct, aside from mentioning "Pillar Shields," there really isn't any kind of innovation on the class that is discernible anyway. But my understanding was that the classes were going to be fairly traditional anyway which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
edit to add- I do find this newsletter to be underwhelming though. They skipped out on January's because they felt like they couldn't get it together in time for release. I don't see why this info took an extra month to get out personally.
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
- 20,277
- 85,870
While true, the 2 year wait to give this 'exciting' news is beyond underwhelming. This is what someone could have done in 10 minutes max as Ut so easily points out. Your mention of the appeal to new gamers is exactly right. After burning so many bridges, he has to hope there is a contingent of new gamers who have no clue about him. He has to hope they have low expectations because it takes him two years just to basically copy paste a D&D manual, and the foundation of a much older game he helped create.