Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Jarek
Molten Core Raider
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Convo was never anything but interested in the game and level-headed about its ups and downs during development as far as I can remember. I'm glad he's onboard, seems like the rational, non-fanboy type of person that could give criticism and feedback when it's needed instead of being a yes man idol-worshipper.
I was all onboard the Kickstarter myself at first, as many here were. Then it got weird, and then it got batshit insane, then it got kinda back on track, and now it looks like this thing may actually happen. I'm back to giving the game a shot if it actually releases. I mean, I'm definitely going to try if I can get it on Steam or whatever, just to see it for myself.
I was all onboard the Kickstarter myself at first, as many here were. Then it got weird, and then it got batshit insane, then it got kinda back on track, and now it looks like this thing may actually happen. I'm back to giving the game a shot if it actually releases. I mean, I'm definitely going to try if I can get it on Steam or whatever, just to see it for myself.
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Fight
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Dullahan
Golden Knight of the Realm
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How exactly they will do it remains to be seen, but a design that isn't entirely sanitized. Mechanics that promote creative solutions. Having mobs that seem like they don't belong or on unpredictable timers. Encounters that aren't designed for standardized group or raid compositions, or that rigidly require an exact number of people. Content for multiple level ranges in close proximity, making things more dangerous. Not soft gating content by levels alone, but utilizing situational gear and abilities obtained horizontally. Varied mob behaviors or dispositions as they call it.Dullahan and in exactly what way is Pantheon thinking outside the box?
There are a lot of ways, but those are just a few. It's not really something that can be pinned down, but more of a philosophy. It's basically the things that make the game seem dangerous, less predictable, more mysterious, and that sometimes make whiny nerds cry "unfair" or "broken". That's what gave EQ character, and can totally be recreated if those designing the game avoid the paint by number approach.
Raw would be an applicable '90s term for it.
goishen
Macho Ma'am
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But we both know that will be instantly bastardized by the player base. Say you're correct. Let's say that they design an old fashioned EQ mob designed for EQ classes. It's designed for a mage to be in the party to have his pet off tank adds. The tank will get almost instantly killed if he tries to do it at the level range. Well, then the answer is simple. Get a tank who's above the level range and cut the mage class out altogether.
Easy peasy. So, it may not be as simple as you think.
Easy peasy. So, it may not be as simple as you think.
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Not making another dumb kiddie friendly quest grinding cartoon MMO is totally thinking outside the box these days.
Jarek
Molten Core Raider
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Dullahan
so they arent, but might, could be.
you gave ideas of things they could do, but no examples of what they are doing outside the box.
their philosophy is not outside the box at all. it is firmly entrenched in a certani box. people have made tons of suggestions, offered ideas, described mechanics, etc.
all Brad has done is say that a 'gotta catch 'em all' philosohy toward player pets is high on their list
you have very high hopes that arent supported by what the game has shown ain the least, and frankly what it will never be
Dullahan
Golden Knight of the Realm
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The quality I'm talking about is in line with both the things I've seen in the gameplay streams, and heard them say. Maybe to you, outside of the box is some "innovation" people drone on about that really means a new way to skin the same cat.
so they arent, but might, could be.
you gave ideas of things they could do, but no examples of what they are doing outside the box.
their philosophy is not outside the box at all. it is firmly entrenched in a certani box. people have made tons of suggestions, offered ideas, described mechanics, etc.
all Brad has done is say that a 'gotta catch 'em all' philosohy toward player pets is high on their list
you have very high hopes that arent supported by what the game has shown ain the least, and frankly what it will never be
What I'm referring to is less of a thing and more of an approach. That approach has been missing since first gen MMOs, and if you want to call it a box, that's fine. It's a box that would get me to sub to a game for the first time in a decade.
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Huh? Out of the box? Innovation?
To anyone asking, I would say put that innovation of yours BACK in the box man! For Pantheon especially!
They are in the business of making an MMORPG. They are struggling to just make a half, quarter or 1/8th of a decent game to fill a hole in the still rather large juicy market (for a startup). That hole is rather conveniently shaped like the EQ sized box with a few frills and twiddles with a small but decent sized throng fans lining up to scubscribe. Anyone who bought Vanguard will ponder consider buying Pantheon if it releases ok. Decent audience.
If they listened to the silly sh*t people vent on their forums, full of out of the box *thinking*, they really do not have a fooking clue already so far into development, and should quit now! At this point the Vision and designs should be well set because you do NOT want to be scrapping and reinvisioning fan suggestions 1/3 of the way through unless FORCED to at gunpoint.
People complaining about lack of innovationg and thinking BIG.... reminds me of Soe and Sigil on one hand, and every Blizzard release on the other. TOO full of INNOVATION.
These companies, some REPEATEDLY (*Wave* @ SoE toombstone), get caught up in their perfume of delusional semi-divine fanboy hype and then are fearfull of NOT living up to the idocy of promising to elevate players into gaming heaven:
Out of the box Innovative sh*t means a lot of R&D & testing and burning through a luxury budget they do not have. Save the *progressive* ideas for iteration 2 once team is experienced. That is IF they SURVIVE to release, for now no point in looking past tomorrow.
To anyone asking, I would say put that innovation of yours BACK in the box man! For Pantheon especially!
They are in the business of making an MMORPG. They are struggling to just make a half, quarter or 1/8th of a decent game to fill a hole in the still rather large juicy market (for a startup). That hole is rather conveniently shaped like the EQ sized box with a few frills and twiddles with a small but decent sized throng fans lining up to scubscribe. Anyone who bought Vanguard will ponder consider buying Pantheon if it releases ok. Decent audience.
- Why the he** would or should they be thinking out of the box?
- To recreate Sigils Epic Vanguard, SoEs EQNext or even Blizzards Titan?
If they listened to the silly sh*t people vent on their forums, full of out of the box *thinking*, they really do not have a fooking clue already so far into development, and should quit now! At this point the Vision and designs should be well set because you do NOT want to be scrapping and reinvisioning fan suggestions 1/3 of the way through unless FORCED to at gunpoint.
People complaining about lack of innovationg and thinking BIG.... reminds me of Soe and Sigil on one hand, and every Blizzard release on the other. TOO full of INNOVATION.
These companies, some REPEATEDLY (*Wave* @ SoE toombstone), get caught up in their perfume of delusional semi-divine fanboy hype and then are fearfull of NOT living up to the idocy of promising to elevate players into gaming heaven:
- MUST have super innovative brilliant features
- MUST have super industry disruptive advances in game mechanics,
- .... aka completely SUPER delusional lack of realism and common fing sense
Out of the box Innovative sh*t means a lot of R&D & testing and burning through a luxury budget they do not have. Save the *progressive* ideas for iteration 2 once team is experienced. That is IF they SURVIVE to release, for now no point in looking past tomorrow.
Rezz
Mr. Poopybutthole
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EQ Reskin: The Game.
I mean, that's what a solid 50k people are absolutely foaming at the mouth for. Lets be incredibly optimistic and say 300k. That 300k could easily keep a non-ambitious game like Pantheon afloat for awhile, since it won't require massive server infrastructure. Then you just hope that word of mouth gets the interest of more people so you can have super crowded servers to bring back that pre-xpac release feeling in the dungeons. Build all that precious community that everyone* thinks doesn't exist anymore.
The devs trying to do new shit or emulate modern gaming is going to end in a dumpster fire that their intended fanbase is going to shit on regularly for selling out or making a WoW-Clone. Keep to the intended niche demographic and it could be pretty good; pretend to be anything else and it'll be Vanguard 2.0. You know, sell some boxes and then make a crater upon re-entry 2 months later, never to recover.
I don't follow this game closely since it seems like it is literal years out from release. They even have an optimistic ETA at this point?
I mean, that's what a solid 50k people are absolutely foaming at the mouth for. Lets be incredibly optimistic and say 300k. That 300k could easily keep a non-ambitious game like Pantheon afloat for awhile, since it won't require massive server infrastructure. Then you just hope that word of mouth gets the interest of more people so you can have super crowded servers to bring back that pre-xpac release feeling in the dungeons. Build all that precious community that everyone* thinks doesn't exist anymore.
The devs trying to do new shit or emulate modern gaming is going to end in a dumpster fire that their intended fanbase is going to shit on regularly for selling out or making a WoW-Clone. Keep to the intended niche demographic and it could be pretty good; pretend to be anything else and it'll be Vanguard 2.0. You know, sell some boxes and then make a crater upon re-entry 2 months later, never to recover.
I don't follow this game closely since it seems like it is literal years out from release. They even have an optimistic ETA at this point?
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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I don't think they get 300k in box sales. That's not too far off total sales of Vanguard and it was hyped a lot more than this game. I think the game could survive pretty easily off 50-60k subs which is very possible. This is going to be another perfect word of mouth game just like EQ. I would have never bought that game without my friends going crazy over it for a few weeks beforehand.
Sevens
Log Wizard
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Game is in Pre alpha, they have a live stream from december of a 3 hour play session, Beta expected in 2017 with release as talked about possibly as early to mid 2018