Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Mur

Mur

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EQ factions added a ton to the game IMO. It was always cool to see what factions something was on the first time you killed it. The fact that there was always a positive, and a negative reaction to killing something was what made it work so well. Then there were the faction adjusts from quests; I still see bonechips in my dreams due to getting Iksar faction on my Troll.
 
goishen

goishen

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Well, what I as talking about is like the cloak quest in MoP for WoW. I hated that quest. Loved it when I finally got the cloak, but man. That faction grind was just brutally mind-numbing.
 
Flipmode

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goishen said:
Well, what I as talking about is like the cloak quest in MoP for WoW. I hated that quest. Loved it when I finally got the cloak, but man. That faction grind was just brutally mind-numbing.
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That's because WoWs faction grind gated you to dailies. You were limited on what you could earn in a day/week. In EQs model, you could grind that out in a day or two if you choose to.
 
Khane

Khane

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Well, you could do it at your own pace in EQ. There wasn't anything you were grinding out in a day or two in EQ but at least you could choose how you went about it

Dailies/Weeklies are the worst thing that ever happened to gaming and I would love to see them gone and forgotten.
 
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Tmac

Tmac

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Nirgon said:
Not sure if today's gamer that demands to have multiple max level alts and a chance at everything is prepared for an EQ style faction grind on every char. Not that I care if they are. That one Legion rep I can't even care to remember now caused quite a few bergs. Imagine them maxing Kromzek and Kromrif then losing XP to Tormax's guards lol. Or wanting both gauntlets of Dragonslaying and a ring 10.

I never minded most of these "grinds" as I could sit there with pals and bullshit for hours. Some of us enjoyed the chatroom with a game on top of it aspect more I guess. With my pals I guess is one thing, doing it with the constantly AFK calladooty generation maybe not. Which is why PvP servers are good, kill off the "I'm allowed to AFK at MY camp all day" fuckers. Let's see how that passive aggression holds up while you're being chain golem wanded.
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And low, you've hit the nail on the head for why rose-colored-glasses will never translate to games today.

Nirgon said:
Some of us enjoyed the chatroom with a game on top of it aspect more I guess.
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I agree that the pace of a lot of older games was acceptable, because technology was more slow-paced. Chatrooms were a thing, so chatrooms in a game translated into something fun.

For games to keep up, they can't old-skool dev that shit. I mean, they can, but they've got to add elements that promote gameplay, reward investment, and provide ways for players to punish one another for things like "AFK calladootality".

I think that's why we're seeing a return, in some games at least, to a lot of risk-reward and PVP sandbox elements. Games like Albion Online and Crowfall seem to be moving in this direction.

I'm with you. I think the days of slow-paced EQ chatrooms are donezo.
 
Flipmode

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Well it's a good thing this game isn't made to cater to those kids that want instant gratification. Everything doesn't have to be made for them. It's ok to have something different. People bag on this game left and right (Brad deserves all the shit he gets). But this game is further along than EQ Next. This so called "vaporware" is actually a playable game. EQ Next is cancelled. So give them a little credit for fucks sake. Y'all are some hardcore jaded motherfuckers at times.
 
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Tmac

Tmac

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Flipmode said:
Everything doesn't have to be made for them. It's ok to have something different. People bag on this game left and right (Brad deserves all the shit he gets). But this game is further along than EQ Next.
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Can you really say it's okay to have something different on the one hand and then champion the remake of an old game on the other? Lulz?
 
Flipmode

Flipmode

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Tmac said:
Can you really say it's okay to have something different on the one hand and then champion the remake of an old game on the other? Lulz?
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Different in comparison to what has been coming out the last 7 years? Sometimes, you have to go back to your roots. The MMORPG genre is nothing more than a glorified lobby game these days. In its quest to make everything more accessible to the player, it lost what made it special. They made the player that hero of legend instead or player number 2000 in a magical, harsh land where you have to work your way up and earn the right to be a hero. It's boring and I'd rather go back to that then grind +2 gooder gear in modern MMORPGs. Hell, most games today are MOs (multiplayer and online).
 
Khane

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WoW doesn't really give anyone instant gratification. It blocks people behind artificial time gates based on those stupid dailies/weeklies. There are limits to everything you can do in any given day in that game.

It's not instant gratification at all, it's cockblocking the people who want to grind something for the sake of keeping everyone the same. Except it ends up hurting the people it was made to help stay competitive instead. Now all the people who can actually log in everyday get their dailies done while everyone who can only log in one or two days a week, regardless of how many hours they can spend on those 2 days, is screwed being 5 days behind for every week that goes by.
 
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Tmac

Tmac

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Flipmode said:
Sometimes, you have to go back to your roots. The MMORPG genre is nothing more than a glorified lobby game these days. In its quest to make everything more accessible to the player, it lost what made it special. They made the player that hero of legend instead or player number 2000 in a magical, harsh land where you have to work your way up and earn the right to be a hero. It's boring and I'd rather go back to that then grind +2 gooder gear in modern MMORPGs. Hell, most games today are MOs (multiplayer and online).
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You're working off the logic that, "Old = Good" and "New = Bad", when really it's just the difference between good design and bad design.

There are things that were in EQ back in the day that just won't sell today. A lot of the original design decisions in EQ probably had a lot to do with the technological limitations. Technology has come a long way to allow developers to do even more with less, so there's really no excuse for "MO's" with bad design. The biggest reason for this is probably them focusing more on the bottom line and lowering the standard of what is considered content.

One of my biggest beefs in WoW is that they took one dungeon, added 10 hard modes and called that 10 pieces of content. I call it lazy game design. And that same bad design philosophy is all over WoW today. Khane touched on it in the post above.

Flipmode said:
It's boring and I'd rather go back to that then grind +2 gooder gear in modern MMORPGs. Hell, most games today are MOs (multiplayer and online).
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This is the crux your thinking is resting on. You don't have to trade new games with bad game design for old boring mechanics.

The biggest problem with MMO's today is that there's no risk and everything feels safe. But, people don't play MMO's to play it safe. That's the biggest different in the newer theme-park MMORPG's like WoW, Wildstar and older games like UO and EQ. Without risk the reward just isn't as good.

Again, I think that's a big reason the market for games like Albion Online and Crowfall is growing. And I'd like to reiterate, one last time, that the main difference (nostalgia does count for something) in games you enjoy and games you don't is the design, not how old or new they are.
 
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Aelzen

Aelzen

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The one thing EQ and early mmos did right was build a world for you, and focused on making that world as cool, scary, fun, and fantastical as possible. Items were rare and unique because it gave more gravitas to the world and its minions.

Then you just got to figure it all out and do whatever you wanted with your buddies. And you knew the good shit was buried somewhere deep in the minotaur caves, or the ancient tomb of skeletons. So you gathered the Kool Kids Klub and went in--but no one told u too or directed you.

Modern games build an experience for you. We need to make sure he gets the +3 goodier by lvl 20, +5 by 30. He must visit these areas, etc. We must make every encounter instanced so theres no tribalism and lord of the nerd flies. FUCK YOU! We're human--we like our petty politics and tribes and enemies and living dangerously. And the smugness of one upping next tribe. And dont virtue signal me thst u dont.

And hows everyone gonna see my sword i killed a god for, or my full set of planes armor if we're all instanced and can dye our armor hot pink and pay $5 to make our sword glow blue and hum like a bag of dildos.

Eq could give a fuck if u still had a cloth cap at lvl 38--or ur guild sucked ass and couldnt break fear so u had to go hunt shit again for gear... or you were evil but grinded and did quests to turn to the light and get dorf/elf faction...or you killed your own species guards cause fuck them thats why-- and god bless them for that.

Just go back to building badass/interesting worlds and releasing the monkies to their whims and desires. They have killed immersion so completely its not even funny--its sad. Everything is scripted snd guided. its like fucking no child left behind now gaming

Old man rant over
 
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goishen

goishen

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Well, not to put the kibosh on your rant, but these days youtube will cover most, if not all, of your bases. Want to learn what parts of a dungeon are really bad? Go to you youtube. Want to learn a boss fight? Go to youtube. Want to learn where to get the best shit? Go to youtube. It's both a help and a curse in the same way that sites that maps of EQ zones.

The world has become a ton more introspective since then. TWD, Life Is Strange, Mass Effect (pre-ME:A), Nier Automata, The Last Of Us, etc. While we might care the same about the amount of lore that we can get out, we don't care the same about pulling teeth trying to get the lore. Either you'll tell us or you won't. If you don't at least say, "Hey, follow me. I've gotta a story to tell you."

I'm not gonna follow you. I've got other shit to do other than beat a dead horse trying to pull its fucking teeth.
 
mkopec

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goishen said:
Well, not to put the kibosh on your rant, but these days youtube will cover most, if not all, of your bases. Want to learn what parts of a dungeon are really bad? Go to you youtube. Want to learn a boss fight? Go to youtube. Want to learn where to get the best shit? Go to youtube. It's both a help and a curse in the same way that sites that maps of EQ zones.

The world has become a ton more introspective since then. TWD, Life Is Strange, Mass Effect (pre-ME:A), Nier Automata, The Last Of Us, etc. While we might care the same about the amount of lore that we can get out, we don't care the same about pulling teeth trying to get the lore. Either you'll tell us or you won't. If you don't at least say, "Hey, follow me. I've gotta a story to tell you."

I'm not gonna follow you. I've got other shit to do other than beat a dead horse trying to pull its fucking teeth.
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LOL, that shit happened in 2000 too, there were map sites, there were strat sites, dungeon loot lists, faction breakdowns, class strats you name it etc.. Shit like this is inevitable, now in video form, so what? Also for every 1 lollore fag, I can show you 2 others that dont give a shit about story. In fact, its my belief that MMORPGs should be about making your own stories. Give me a dangerous world, give me loot, give me a meaningful death penalty, give me few good buddies to roll with and the stories will write themselves.
 
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dizzie

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So I have not had the pleasure of this thread since 2015. Anyone prepared to do a tl:dr for me? Is the game close to release even. Sorry but Cba to read nearly 2 years worth of comments.

Last time I was here it was all fuzzy trolls and this is gonna rock!
 
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A

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dizzie said:
So I have not had the pleasure of this thread since 2015. Anyone prepared to do a tl:dr for me? Is the game close to release even. Sorry but Cba to read nearly 2 years worth of comments.

Last time I was here it was all fuzzy trolls and this is gonna rock!
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Alpha end of 2017
 
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Nirgon

Nirgon

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Nah EQ has relevance today it just won't serve as many as McDonald's tier.

Epic quests that don't show you exactly where to go on the map that are figured out by the community or even better a community of each class within a community is still very cool.

The wizard epic giving you a note to get dragon bones from the plane of fear then instead requiring Cazic's skin wasn't great but the concept and reward was.

Not to mention I think doing dungeons or finding camps in the open world is a way better model than grinding quest chains where perhaps .001% of people actually read the dialogue in it. Yes grinding mobs in dungeons where sometimes a rare mob pops with a rare item is better to me and most people I know.

Also, twinking. Blizzard went to great effort to make sure items were soul bound then added heirlooms. Why can't we just have existing items be given to lower level players but have damage tables/weapon skill limiting what you can do? Haste doesn't work until lvl 30? Seemed perfectly fine in EQ to me and everyone loved it as a way to create and level alts.
 
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pharmakos

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dizzie said:
So I have not had the pleasure of this thread since 2015. Anyone prepared to do a tl:dr for me? Is the game close to release even. Sorry but Cba to read nearly 2 years worth of comments.

Last time I was here it was all fuzzy trolls and this is gonna rock!
Click to expand...

they've put i think three gameplay videos since then.
 
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