Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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The problem for me is that EQ seemed amazing in 1999 but that was nearly 20 years ago, playing the same thing now is not going to seem as fun. It may get better later on but this video was so uneventful too. Part of the fun of EQ was going to Cazic Thule at a similar level to this video, and there were people all over the place, some trying to solo and failing, some trying to kite, a few groups, and terrible pathing meant mobs were running all over. And even in a group it was chaotic, mana was so slow and limited, mez often didn't land because spells got resisted and would cause major aggro to the caster, then the cleric would blow all their mana trying to keep them alive, and get heal aggro, and end the fight injured and on 0%. Tank taunt was hit and miss and they got no aggro from their weapon because it was a rusty sword. Nobody had strong enough nukes to flatten stuff. To me that was the only way the game was fun. As soon as you get 6 people working like a machine with safe pulls of 2 or 3 mobs, 100% success taunts, 100% success mezzes on the 1 or 2 adds, the whole thing becomes a boring grind.

Also in EQ mezzes would get broken all the time because someone left a pet on a mob, or a dot, or some dps would still be hitting it. Even EQ is boring now that everyone knows how to play it so well, so remaking that but maybe a bit easier is a bad idea imo. Also the only new stuff I've seen so far like the climate thing and quest finding perception thing, are just gimmicks that add nothing imo.

The only time I felt any sense of excitement in the video is when they got the named, and even then it died pretty fast. I still play EQ and often I will 6 box a group myself, and the sad reality is that if you just set every character to cast a nuke (even the cleric), every mob dies instantly. So I pull a few mobs onto my tank, have each other character cast their nuke once, and the mobs die one by one, and you can do that all the way up to level 60 something. EQ was only really fun when everyone was a noob and needed to learn the game. The problem with making a game that is just like a previous one, is that we will have nothing to learn.

I had these same feelings about Vanguard too, especially in groups because it was just too easy. But I still had fun in that game, mostly because the way the classes worked helped take my focus away from how mindless what we were doing was. But every time I rage quit Vanguard was because of boredom, and it was because I spent the night in a group and found it deathly boring.
 
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Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
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This doesn't look that bad to me. Guess I have bad taste. The combat is a tad on the boring side but the acclimation system is interesting and the AI may make things interesting. I'm down.
 
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Fyff

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
2,728
5,380
there were 8k+ on Cohh's within the first 10 minutes, i stopped paying attention after that, but i heard it went higher.
Those numbers are almost assuredly phony. There are so many programs out there right now that artificially increase your numbers.
 

Iadien

Silver Knight of the Realm
419
29
The stream was pretty good. I'm not going to judge the combat until I'm actually playing it, because EQs combat is boring as fuck to watch to me as well.

Those numbers are almost assuredly phony. There are so many programs out there right now that artificially increase your numbers.

Those numbers are not fake. He has a large following, and has been a top streamer for quite some time now and has streamed literally every single day for 3+ years. He has over 10,000 subscribers.
 
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Reht

Molten Core Raider
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317
The stream was pretty good. I'm not going to judge the combat until I'm actually playing it, because EQs combat is boring as fuck to watch to me as well.
yeah, i agree, it looks like there is more button mashing than EQ originally had, which is nice.
 

Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
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What is even on the horizon for high fantasy PVE MMOs? Ashes or Creation, Chronicals of Elyria, and this. I think Ashes has PVP in it though. This better pan out or we're in some bleak territory.
 

Reht

Molten Core Raider
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317
What is even on the horizon for high fantasy PVE MMOs? Ashes or Creation, Chronicals of Elyria, and this. I think Ashes has PVP in it though. This better pan out or we're in some bleak territory.
Elyria also has PvP. As much as it pains me to say it, Saga of Lucimia is still out there too.
 

Vithe

Hardcore Casual
91
14
After watching Cohh's stream I'd be lying if I said I wasn't excited for the game. I really hope it comes together.
 
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Quaid

Trump's Staff
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Oh cool. It's starting to look good. Happy for them.

Can't wait to try it out.
 
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Nirgon

Log Wizard
13,775
21,681
Oh they had adds and dropped aggro. I watched the monk split pull a few things.

I can see where your standard normal difficulty wow raiders would wipe a few times on that stuff.
 
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Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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I can see where your standard normal difficulty wow raiders would wipe a few times on that stuff.

Been playing on one of the EQ TLP servers lately, starting from scratch. It's been 10 years or so since I played EQ. Took me a bit to get use to dying all the time. EQ is easy, unless you forget about pathing, trains and just about everything else that modern QOL mmo's have eliminated.

Being killed by a random red con bear that wanders by is depressing and glorious at the same time. There is something very cool about chaos, keeps the blood flowing. Modern mmos are fucking snooze fests after a few days.
 
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Dullahan

Golden Knight of the Realm
259
256
The problem for me is that EQ seemed amazing in 1999 but that was nearly 20 years ago, playing the same thing now is not going to seem as fun. It may get better later on but this video was so uneventful too. Part of the fun of EQ was going to Cazic Thule at a similar level to this video, and there were people all over the place, some trying to solo and failing, some trying to kite, a few groups, and terrible pathing meant mobs were running all over. And even in a group it was chaotic, mana was so slow and limited, mez often didn't land because spells got resisted and would cause major aggro to the caster, then the cleric would blow all their mana trying to keep them alive, and get heal aggro, and end the fight injured and on 0%. Tank taunt was hit and miss and they got no aggro from their weapon because it was a rusty sword. Nobody had strong enough nukes to flatten stuff. To me that was the only way the game was fun. As soon as you get 6 people working like a machine with safe pulls of 2 or 3 mobs, 100% success taunts, 100% success mezzes on the 1 or 2 adds, the whole thing becomes a boring grind.

Also in EQ mezzes would get broken all the time because someone left a pet on a mob, or a dot, or some dps would still be hitting it. Even EQ is boring now that everyone knows how to play it so well, so remaking that but maybe a bit easier is a bad idea imo. Also the only new stuff I've seen so far like the climate thing and quest finding perception thing, are just gimmicks that add nothing imo.

The only time I felt any sense of excitement in the video is when they got the named, and even then it died pretty fast. I still play EQ and often I will 6 box a group myself, and the sad reality is that if you just set every character to cast a nuke (even the cleric), every mob dies instantly. So I pull a few mobs onto my tank, have each other character cast their nuke once, and the mobs die one by one, and you can do that all the way up to level 60 something. EQ was only really fun when everyone was a noob and needed to learn the game. The problem with making a game that is just like a previous one, is that we will have nothing to learn.

I had these same feelings about Vanguard too, especially in groups because it was just too easy. But I still had fun in that game, mostly because the way the classes worked helped take my focus away from how mindless what we were doing was. But every time I rage quit Vanguard was because of boredom, and it was because I spent the night in a group and found it deathly boring.
This is why I've long said Pantheon should not only be hard, it should be harder than EQ. That doesn't mean you have to permanently lose your gear when you die, but it should mean better AI and reactive combat, on top of all the other conveniences of EQ (like a random red con bear/griffon/guard smashing you).

If Pantheon moves back towards Vanguard and the mainstream (rather than EQ), I'm afraid it's fate will be the same. Without those inconveniences that made people need each other, we'll never see that sense of community we saw in EQ.
 
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Arden

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Game is definitely happening boys. Looks better than expected.

The real test is getting in the driver's seat, obviously. Watching other people play mmos is never fun, no mater how fun the actual game is to play.

Hope they change some of the sound and spell effects. Hard to tell watching Cohh play, but they seemed very underwhelming. I liked the very "crunchy" sound of combat in EQ> You could feel it viscerally when you hit a mob. Not only did you get a solid crunching sound with each hit, but the mob usually made a noise too, letting you know you were connecting. EQ even had a louder crunching sound for hits that did more damage- that was a very cool little addition that a lot of people didn't realize. Mobs also had great death sounds. Nothing like hearing orcs and Iksars bite it.

Spell effects sounded very awesome in EQ too. They really let you know you were casting some powerful shit. Made it feel good to cast those high level DDs. I heard the familiar buff sound in Pantheon (which was nice) but didn't hear much else as far as good spell sounds.

I agree with the others. Really looking forward to trying this. From the sound of the Q and A, the guys making this have a very solid vision and that vision is very much in line with what EQ fans will want to see.

I hope these guys have a sound strategy with how to handle gold farmers/spammers. There are some things you need to do early on to minimize their impact on the game.
 
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Flipmode

EQOA Refugee
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The combat doesn't have to action twitch combat. They should add offensive/defensive targeting from Vanguard. Some sort of perception system (may already be in), and focus on making the world interesting. Make us cater to the world, not the other way around. This is actually the top of my list and that is something I would not have said even a year ago. I can applaud the effort and eat crow. I'm down.
 
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Mick

<Gold Donor>
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It looks like offensive/defensive target is in game. Watch the video it is in the upper right hand corner.
 
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Arden

Blackwing Lair Raider
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The combat doesn't have to action twitch combat. They should add offensive/defensive targeting from Vanguard. Some sort of perception system (may already be in), and focus on making the world interesting. Make us cater to the world, not the other way around. This is actually the top of my list and that is something I would not have said even a year ago. I can applaud the effort and eat crow. I'm down.

Everything you mentioned was either featured or described in the stream
 
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Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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If i had to describe the stream in one word it would be Slow. Im just not sure theres an audience for something like this anymore.
 
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Reht

Molten Core Raider
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If i had to describe the stream in one word it would be Slow. Im just not sure theres an audience for something like this anymore.
I think there is, i know a lot of folks who still play EQ who want to play something else but won't because most of today aren't slower or group oriented; they don't want twitch based combat. It may not be 100's of thousands but they hopefully they won't need that many subs to keep the game going. I know anecdotal "evidence" means nothing, but most of these people won't even entertain the idea of going to any other game so that has to account for something in my opinion.
 
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turbo

Molten Core Raider
1,257
113
Not going to lie; i don't want a damn EQ reskin, i want a Vanguard reskin. O/D targeting, casting while moving, extremely unique classes that all had wide variability in what they brought to the table , long gear grinds (Celestial Ward chain before they made pieces more easy to get and exp way faster was one of my alltime favorite MMO journeys back when NO ONE had done it on our server so truly exploring all the massive dungeons etc......that was the only time in 17 years i've truly been immersed in a MMO game. Not saying there wasn't clearly technical faults but the game itself was awesome for the time and if they could give that a nice 2017 shine...i'd drop $2-$3,000 founder donation thingy or whatever to help fund. Just give me a chaos volley spell pre nerf.....greatest spell in all of MMO's history.
 

Byr

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
3,801
5,419
I think there is, i know a lot of folks who still play EQ who want to play something else but won't because most of today aren't slower or group oriented; they don't want twitch based combat. It may not be 100's of thousands but they hopefully they won't need that many subs to keep the game going. I know anecdotal "evidence" means nothing, but most of these people won't even entertain the idea of going to any other game so that has to account for something in my opinion.

Combat doesnt have to be twitch based to not feel slow. Even just letting us move while casting would go a long way to making combat feel a bit more active even if it doesnt speed it up at all.
 
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