Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Alasliasolonik said:

You're fucking jaded or retarded.

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Probably both.

Ambiturner said:

Your analogy makes absolutely no sense and I don't see any possible way WoW is the version that "failed" given the actual definition or the one you're choosing.

EQ sure as hell didnt keep people "entangled" nearly as long as WoW.

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some or maybe even most, i played WOW for a total of 4 months, and 2 of them months were this year. lol.

Convo said:

For the record.. I actually bailed on this thread once I became more involved with the game. It wasn’t fair to everyone. I had fun in other threads... ;-) That’s ancient history now but just wanted to jump in and say thanks for all the conversation, feedback and lolz. I’m a proud member of the fallen.

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At least come talk shit in the NFL thread!!

Good luck in your new gig!

BoozeCube said:

Was watching a few of these TOP 10 upcoming MMO lists to see what's out there and HOLY SHIT is there a metric fuck ton of weeb shit.

(snip)

No wonder this genre is dead.

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I personally can't wait to welcome our new Chinese overlords in the gaming industry and maybe that'll show EA/WB/UbiSoft/etc what it's like. Maybe then they'll go back to the drawing boards again, and start making games that are I dunno.... Actually fun.

Ambiturner said:

Your analogy makes absolutely no sense and I don't see any possible way WoW is the version that "failed" given the actual definition or the one you're choosing.

EQ sure as hell didnt keep people "entangled" nearly as long as WoW.

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I think my /played was some obnoxious number. Something over a year of being online for my main character. I dont even know when I slept, given I was in Middle School and High School at the time. Which is the only point that I was really trying to make with the bullshit about Matrix. I just think that if a game is more punishing, and not always rainbows and butterflies... it may not be a game everyone will be chomping at the bit to play, but the people that do play that punishing game will play it for a much longer time. Not out of masochism, but out of a deeper bond made with their character over the trials and tribulations of the game.

I only ever play WoW, or any MMO that has came out recently in small month to two month chunk for example. Which, as successful as the game a game like WoW - it fails for me, personally. If I was a developer, I would want my player base to have something that they could reach for in the interim of content gap. WoW is successful in always grabbing my attention and getting me to come back and play, but there never feels like any type of longevity to it. Unless Im slamming my balls in Mythic, and I have to really like the raid before I do that again. Or Im playing Pokemon with mounts, pets, or toys.

WoW has become a generational game. It has not kept the same people entangled. It's relied heavily on attracting new players. EQ was different, in that it brought in most of it's players in the early years, and kept them. How many people do any of you know who actually played WoW beyond the first couple expansions, or those that are playing today that have from the beginning? I know only 1.

Dullahan said:

WoW has become a generational game. It has not kept the same people entangled. It's relied heavily on attracting new players. EQ was different, in that it brought in most of it's players in the early years, and kept them. How many people do any of you know who actually played WoW beyond the first couple expansions, or those that are playing today that have from the beginning? I know only 1.

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It makes you wonder how things would’ve turned out had Blizzard released WoW in 1999 and Sony released EQ in 2004.

EQ would have died on the vine, unless part of this fantasy includes WoW never having aped all the good stuff EQ did and then removing all the inane shit. There's a -lot- of borrowing going on between EQ and WoW, but WoW did like 90% of the same stuff better. Them coming out first means EQ just dies as a 10k subscriber base vs. the 20k they have now and none of us are here.

Rezz said:

EQ would have died on the vine, unless part of this fantasy includes WoW never having aped all the good stuff EQ did and then removing all the inane shit. There's a -lot- of borrowing going on between EQ and WoW, but WoW did like 90% of the same stuff better. Them coming out first means EQ just dies as a 10k subscriber base vs. the 20k they have now and none of us are here.

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WoW did 90% of the same stuff as EQ in 2004 better. Classic EQ was a different game, with less crossover.

Precisely the point. Blizzard benefitted by building on what EQ already was in the gaming market. I’m sure WoW would’ve been completely different in a number of ways had it been released first. Same for us as players. And vice versa with EQ.

Yeah, I realize we can play the “what if” game all day long but it’s usually the first thing that comes to mind when I see EQ and WoW mentioned in the same sentence for comparison (happened maybe two or three times in the last 15 years).

Carry on.

If WoW came out first, I wonder if WoW would have followed the overhead view of Ultima Online? The Warcraft game itself was overhead, and they may have continued that perspective. If that's the case, EQ may have been able to make a splash if it was 3D view. Plus, it would have been able to build upon WoW gameplay ideas.

zzeris said:

But that's not actually true. EQ also had massive attrition and the only reason they tried new things was to get new subs to make up for lost ones. There is a reason EQ never had over maybe 500,000 subs at any given point. There is a reason less than 60,000 play today. There is a reason WoW not only had over 10 million but has fluctuated with that number several times during it's history. WoW is the game that has a variety of things to do, new experiences, etc for not only the new players but for people that wanted to come back for a while. EQ's version? P99. Not even close to similar in impact. It's crazy to compare a game that has dominated the landscape for over 13 years with a blip in the early years. EQ was king...for a very short time. The king did not keep a majority of it's players and it never had the majority of the market. These comparisons are stupid.

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WoW has kept players coming in for a long time, but it hasn't been the same people. Nothing about what I said was untrue. EQ's playerbase has been mostly lifers that started in the early years. Those players also login consistently, whereas WoW for about the last decade has jumped following an expansion or patch, then goes back to being primarily populated by raiders.

EQ was definitely a different game from a different era, but when it came out most people didn't even have the internet. Not the case in 2005.

You're talking about a very small percentage of the overall EQ population who became the majority after everyone else had fucked off. WoW has those players too and once WoW is finally in it's twilight years those same players will make up the majority of the playerbase there as well.

If you don't understand that since BC, WoW has had a retention issue where people play and leave every major patch, I just don't know what to tell you. That was not how EQ worked for the first 4+ years. It had very low turnover.

Dullahan said:

If you don't understand that since BC, WoW has had a retention issue where people play and leave every major patch, I just don't know what to tell you. That was not how EQ worked for the first 4+ years. It had very low turnover.

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No it didn't, at least not overall (anything else is anecdotal conjecture) within the same 5 year window you are using for EQ. At the 5 year mark, WoW was its peak, it didn't start experiencing retention problems until Cataclysm where it started to nose dive and people started playing other games during expansion lulls:

WoW subscribers/players numbers | Statista

You do realize those numbers are taken during peaks following patches and expansions, no? As someone who actually played during the early years, the drop in players after major patches was obvious.

Just like EQ's numbers which never stayed that consistent. I played both EQ and WoW at that point too and to say EQ is/was any different is silly. People would drop off at the 6-8 month mark in EQ waiting for an expansion to drop just like people who quit WoW temporarily - we always had to go into recruitment high gear at roughly the same times in expansion cycles - WoW's content patches smoothed it more through Wrath than the loss we saw in EQ during PoP - God. The only real difference now is that there are a lot more options to lure people away during lulls than there were in 2005 MMO era.