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Some here are definitely more geeks than nerds. I'm sure people are offended by this post you miserable shitlord.
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Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Some here are definitely more geeks than nerds. I'm sure people are offended by this post you miserable shitlord.
I fucking hate raid caps. Why should people in your guild not be able to participate in a raid or event? Scale the encounters accordingly, hell, make the drop rate go up with the less people you use, but if 60 people are online one night and want to raid, it's fucking lame to have half of them sit on the sidelines, waiting for their substitution.
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yamikazo
Trakanon Raider
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Weird. Almost like Unity. It's like Brad didn't learn the lesson the first time.
tyen
EQ in a browser wait time: ____
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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I disagree with almost all of this. Blizzard remaking Vanilla WoW fits in with them remastering Starcraft, Warcraft III, and Diablo 2. Their product lineup is always small because they have 4 main IPs and they focus on sequels and expansions. Maybe Activision is pushing these remakes but Blizzard has always focused on its primary IPs.
People will log into Vanilla because of nostalgia. Your statement of scratching an old school itch while babysitting and dumbed down design makes zero sense. Which one is it? You didn't play Vanilla for any significant time if you thought it wasn't challenging, rewarding, and had good social environments. They will get bored but that doesn't mean they will look for this game. They didn't look hard for Vanguard. They didn't stay long at many of Blizzard's competitors over the years. This is a lot of hopium.
The reason for the meme is because players told them what they wanted. Blizzard researched what EQ was doing wrong and why they were losing people almost as fast as they gained new players. Blizzard went with easily digested achievements which helped their game explode. People like getting achievements and new stuff to use, show off, etc. Many people finally figured out the rat race but WoW is still wildly successful 14 years later. There is zero evidence to support your claim of significant demand. Are you going to use the same tired and stupid Dark Souls argument?
In the end, this game will do well if it's well made and interesting. That's all they need. They need to put every second of their effort on animations, response time, balance and bugs. Anything else will get them another VG and the same old tripe we've all heard since VG pulled a Hindenburg.
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Someone break down the difference between nerd, geek, and dork.
I kinda always self labeled as dork, just liked the name better than the other two.
Erronius
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I don't even know if Pants On Head is going to have instanced or non-instanced raid content. If it's instanced, then I don't care. If you're willing to lock your entire guild to a single raid ID? Then great, have fun. But if we're talking about competitive open-world raids, then I'm a bit more concerned. Zerging becomes an actual issue past a certain point.
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I was going to self-identify as dork, too, but now that doesn't feel right.
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Erronius
<WoW Guild Officer>
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Take current EQ for your answer. I still get the itch from time to time, log in, play a while, then get bored and stop. Is it the same game from '99? Absolutely not. Is it easier in many ways? 100%, yes. In many ways it is dumbed down, but fuck me if I don't scratch an itch with it.
I agree with you that there's a lot of hopium at play, and that re-releasing a game does fit Blizzard. But I also agree with rinthea that it's going to scratch an itch. I've already had people that I haven't really played online with in years and years, hit me up asking if I'd be interested in the Vanilla reboot. It doesn't really resonate with me much, because my itch goes deeper/longer back to older games than WOW, and when I left WOW it was after trying to make it work several times. My itches are EVE, EQ, lots of games on Steam, etc etc etc. But for others? They're most definitely going to have WOW as their main, old-school itch. Which is probably weird to a lot of us, because WOW wasn't our first or even second MMO experience.
Blizzard didn't 'explode' because of achievements, though. They exploded because they waded into a market filled with shit developers pushing unfinished content and fucking over their userbase, and they rolled out an amazing Vanilla package that addressed a lot of what the old school developers had been ignoring. They also did well because they made their content rather accessible to the mass market players (which, admittedly, did sour the hardcore gamers that didn't want to see the fruits of their hard work evaporate when planned obsolescence via expansions hit)
The stark reality is that there's many more players that just want to log on, do whatever version of dailies their MMO of choice provides, maybe do 1-2 hours of content, and then log off. They don't want to poopsock. They want an MMO experience that slowly yet methodically places content breadcrumbs in front of them.
THAT SAID...those same players don't consciously realize that they're the ones that have pushed Blizzard into creating content like this (because Blizz is a business and wants as many Soybucks as possible), and that this kind of content creation is what has led to people leaving in droves. It's hard to create any attachment...any palpable reason...to stick with a MMO long-term, when players want a paradigm that eschews any content that leads to a long-term investment.
They basically had no insight and demanded disposable, garbage content. And so Blizzard made them garbage content. But now they're tired of the garbage and want to go back to pop their MMO cherry again, without realizing that they're the ones who gave Blizzard a reason to make garbage content in the first place. And Blizz doesn't care, because they're all about money and would reskin Diablo into a Chinese/Korean mobile game if they thought that would make more money, even if it's also fucking garbage.
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Erronius
<WoW Guild Officer>
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Somnia
Lord Nagafen Raider
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There were more streams today just as a heads up.
Kidritch's stream
MyHappy had one also, but I don't see a vod link for his.
Kidritch's stream
MyHappy had one also, but I don't see a vod link for his.
The lighting isn't bad but the rest looks rather dated by 4-6 years or so, which isn't exactly great for a game that is still years away from release. The people that are actually wanting this sort of old gameplay style will tolerate it, but it will make it harder to attract random people. The animations need some work though as those are what will make or break it for a lot of people whether they realize it or not.
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zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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Take current EQ for your answer. I still get the itch from time to time, log in, play a while, then get bored and stop. Is it the same game from '99? Absolutely not. Is it easier in many ways? 100%, yes. In many ways it is dumbed down, but fuck me if I don't scratch an itch with it.
I agree with you that there's a lot of hopium at play, and that re-releasing a game does fit Blizzard. But I also agree with rinthea that it's going to scratch an itch. I've already had people that I haven't really played online with in years and years, hit me up asking if I'd be interested in the Vanilla reboot. It doesn't really resonate with me much, because my itch goes deeper/longer back to older games than WOW, and when I left WOW it was after trying to make it work several times. My itches are EVE, EQ, lots of games on Steam, etc etc etc. But for others? They're most definitely going to have WOW as their main, old-school itch. Which is probably weird to a lot of us, because WOW wasn't our first or even second MMO experience.
Blizzard didn't 'explode' because of achievements, though. They exploded because they waded into a market filled with shit developers pushing unfinished content and fucking over their userbase, and they rolled out an amazing Vanilla package that addressed a lot of what the old school developers had been ignoring. They also did well because they made their content rather accessible to the mass market players (which, admittedly, did sour the hardcore gamers that didn't want to see the fruits of their hard work evaporate when planned obsolescence via expansions hit)
The stark reality is that there's many more players that just want to log on, do whatever version of dailies their MMO of choice provides, maybe do 1-2 hours of content, and then log off. They don't want to poopsock. They want an MMO experience that slowly yet methodically places content breadcrumbs in front of them.
THAT SAID...those same players don't consciously realize that they're the ones that have pushed Blizzard into creating content like this (because Blizz is a business and wants as many Soybucks as possible), and that this kind of content creation is what has led to people leaving in droves. It's hard to create any attachment...any palpable reason...to stick with a MMO long-term, when players want a paradigm that eschews any content that leads to a long-term investment.
They basically had no insight and demanded disposable, garbage content. And so Blizzard made them garbage content. But now they're tired of the garbage and want to go back to pop their MMO cherry again, without realizing that they're the ones who gave Blizzard a reason to make garbage content in the first place. And Blizz doesn't care, because they're all about money and would reskin Diablo into a Chinese/Korean mobile game if they thought that would make more money, even if it's also fucking garbage.
I agree Blizzard finally made an amazingly stable and well done MMO, which did get most of the old hardcore crowd. My achievements comment was basically accessibility for the crowd you mention later...few hours a day and want to see progress/loot. This is the main crowd they were looking for and won.
I agree about most of your statements. I wonder though about the majority wanting the shit sandwich they eventually provided. My thoughts are that the very vocal 10-15% wanted such things. Most people just played the game and did their thing or moved on. Most people don't complain, they just move on. Just like in politics, restaurants, and many other areas, that vocal 10% gains a lot of traction and has an out-sized voice because they never stop bitching until they see what they want. They didn't move on. They just pushed until they got what they wanted.
Either way, there is little evidence that there is a huge crowd of gamers wanting old school MMOs(maybe Vanilla?). The massive numbers all came from Blizzard and Asians. This game won't need them, which is a good thing. I hope it succeeds but the 'huge, hidden' population just waiting for the next EQ-like experience sounds laughable. ROFLMAO kind of laughable.
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Sick of hearing about how Blizzard did everything right and that's why people left EQ. People left EQ because it was already 5 years old and on its last leg. Some really bad expansions and gaming decisions did that game in, and people were looking for something new. Also, new gamers flocked to WoW because they had never fucking heard of EQ before, nor did they know what a MMO was. They played WoW because they knew the IP. Warcraft was a massively successful game, with two sequels. Hell, a lot of my friends when they bought WoW were telling me, "it's like this whole online world, where everyone in it are other players. You've never seen anything like it." and I'd respond by saying, "actually, I have. It's called Everquest, and it came out in 1999."
Wow reached rock stardom because it had an established name that the entire gaming universe knew. EQ was a startup from a tiny company, and still grew its player base to roughly 500,000 people. It's really absurd to say WoW was great, and EQ was shit. EQ was the first, and did a lot of things right. In fact, EQ did a lot of things right that other games have still gotten wrong nearly 20 years later (sprawling dungeons, meaningful loot, death penalty, etc...).
Wow reached rock stardom because it had an established name that the entire gaming universe knew. EQ was a startup from a tiny company, and still grew its player base to roughly 500,000 people. It's really absurd to say WoW was great, and EQ was shit. EQ was the first, and did a lot of things right. In fact, EQ did a lot of things right that other games have still gotten wrong nearly 20 years later (sprawling dungeons, meaningful loot, death penalty, etc...).
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Horrible balance and bugginess of Gates + absolutely smooth polished gameplay of WoW + new world to explore in WoW killed EQ's momentum. It's as simple as that.
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BTW, I still have every intention of giving Pantheon a try when it releases. If it's a good game, I'll continue to play. If not, OK.. I'll move on.. Some of the comments here still act like Brad killed your newborn child with the ridiculous hatred towards him and Pantheon. In case you hadn't heard, making games is fucking hard. Making successful games is even harder.
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Regime
LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...
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