Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

What killed EQ for me wasn't being attracted to the new shiny Blizzard MMO - it was the vacuum left on the servers after WoW released.

I logged on many days wanting to continue playing EQ, but it was a ghost town. Mostly AFKers standing around. High end zones were sparsely populated, and spots were tough to come by. Raiding was completely screwed for a while. Losing that 'critical mass' of players is what really hurt.

The market has changed dramatically since then, which can both help and hurt Pantheon's launch. It will be easier to get exposure (either good or bad) but they will need to grab and maintain that critical mass to make it successful. And that hinges on a smooth release. No buggy shit-shows on launch, or it's as good as dead already.

That said, the recent streams aren't really doing that much for me either. Yes, it's cool seeing new classes, graphics updates, systems integration, etc. I also understand they are not 'official VR' sponsored events, but seeing videos in the same areas and the same level ranges is not interesting, and is actually kind of sad/depressing. I'd be interested to know how much traffic the new streams are generating to their website, and how dependent they are on these 'pledge packages' for funding.

The stream last night was actually pretty good. The Alexensual guy is a total shitlord, extremely jaded MMO vet, and WoW Classic fanboi, so I was curious how he would respond to this game. Thought he asked some rather pointed questions in the stream and has been pretty even-keeled about if the game is good, he'll play, if not, he won't. I don't think he's a member here, but he's probably as close as it gets personality-wise in terms of the streamers they've allowed in so far. I would say he's cautiously optimistic and seems to follow the game to some extent, he said he has pledged. He also has about 5500 views for his video 12 hours after the stream. That's significantly more than the couple hundred most of these guys get. I think Cohh, TheHiveLeader, and this guy have separated themselves as potentially impact streamers due to fanbase numbers. He also did a good job on the Cleric, which almost everyone does, and we found out in this stream that Joppa's favorite class (and his future main in this game) is the Cleric. He's in charge of class design, so safe to assume they are going to be good.


Tidbits from stream:

- There will be no sharding of zones.

- There may be phasing (ala WoW) in small, specific circumstances, but it's not currently planned. Thinks phasing is fine if done right.

- Raid size is being developed currently for different targets being 12 and 24 man raids. 40 man raids still might be in the plans as well

- They will not be doing different challenge versions of the same raid in terms of difficulty or number cap.


- Says the Shaman is the "Bard" of the healing classes almost to the point of being a support class. Lots of synergy with other classes, specifically "drenching" the mobs and allowing the Druid and Wizard to use their lightning and shock abilities to enhanced effect. That is just one example. They also primarily heal through HoTs.

- Shaman debuffs such as Slow last 90 seconds. Shaman buffs such as Haste or Stat buffs are 24 and 36 minutes.

- Shaman have quite a few combo type abilities where if "X" ability is on the target and they cast "Y" ability, than a greatly improved and sometimes new result "Z" will occur.


- Stressed individual customization options within the same class by choosing to focus on specific stats that enhance specific abilities and playstyles. Example given was that on his Enchanter, Joppa focuses on whichever stat (Charisma?) helps extend his mez abilities, but by focusing on that stat, his mana regen abilities are lower than what other Enchanters tend to do. Mentioned that Clerics have a similar difficult choice in focusing on Wisdom or pure Hit Points as many of their abilities are based off their own maximum health. Also stressed that not all players of a particular class will have the same abilities or spells, many are quested and/or difficult to discover or find as loot.

- Joppa considers himself to be a PvP fanatic from Sullen Zek. Stresses he is focused on making Pantheon a quality PvP option. Still clarifies that PvE is first and foremost though.

I think all of this remastering and vanilla move is a little simpler than we are giving it credit. I think it's all about empowering the brand. If you've been paying attention to the battle.net launcher over the last few years, they have almost doubled the available games. They have already added WC3 but now you'll have D2 and WoW will have a wave of subs coming back to empower that franchise when vanilla launches.

I think they're just attempting to bring their entire catalog to single portal while there's a lull in the market and a sizable movement for nostalgia. The moons are aligned for this move and it makes perfect sense. The encouraging part in all of this is while we are in this lull period and nostalgia is trending hard, there's stuff obviously going on in the background. These itches will be scratched but we are going to see some bombs dropped. Businesses can't look back forever, though it's nice, but it will move forward. I expected to see a Diablo 4, new Blizzard MMO, and I think DB will drop a new MMO announcement on the EQ anniversary.

I'm good scratching the itch a little longer and while i've been disappointment with the lack of D4 and new Blizzard MMO announcements, i've got enough to do for now.... I just want them to do it up right.

zzeris said:

You're right that EQ deserves it's due. It was the foundation on which Blizzard made WoW. It did do a lot of things right and I really enjoyed some of their biggest mistakes too(BARD YEAH). The game had a lot of unique and wonderful parts. They were an older game but as you mention, their main problems were self inflicted. People were still falling though the world two years after release. Crazy CR issues throughout the years.The bard wasn't changed until maybe 4 years in?(sad day). Lots and lots and lots of bugs. Instead of fixing them, they just released new expansions like crazy. We need your infusion of cash every 6 months people! Yes, beyond the $15 monthly deal too. No, we don't need to fix problems, just need money! They rewarded this constant infusion of cash with worse expansions as time moved forward. The original game was a fun 3D D&D type game that was unlike anything made before. They had no clue what to do with that success and eventually fucked it up.

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My first experience with WoW was after BC came out. Before that I played EQ for years. After leaving EQ, went and played other mmos (FFXI, Tabula Rasa Planetside, Guild Wars, etc) before finally trying WoW.

First impression of WoW after playing other very different mmo's, was that it was a fucking carbon copy of EQ, with a better questing interface and shit graphics. Got over that negative first impression and played up to BC and then felt the EQ copy vibes all over again. BC's fucking grind reminded me of Velious, but worse. I quit and didn't go back to WoW for a few years.

Even after all this time, when I play WoW it still reminds me how much they just copy / pasted EQ. That's fine, in many ways they made a better EQ. But in many other ways it is much worse. Which is why I never can stand WoW for more than a couple of months, been there, done that.

If you like WoW that's great, slobber all over it's nuts, I don't care. But don't fucking tell me I have to like it because you do. Or that only games that copy WoW will succeed (which is just a copy of EQ). And now, in 2018, WoW is one of the ugliest, most boring games around. It hasn't aged well, neither has it's rabid old fuck fans.

Grim1 said:

My first experience with WoW was after BC came out. Before that I played EQ for years. After leaving EQ, went and played other mmos (FFXI, Tabula Rasa Planetside, Guild Wars, etc) before finally trying WoW.

My first impression of WoW after playing other very different mmo's, was that it was a fucking carbon copy of EQ, with a better questing interface and shit graphics. Got over that negative first impression and played up to BC and then felt the EQ copy vibes all over again. BC's fucking grind reminded me of Velious, but worse. I quit and didn't go back to WoW for a few years.

Even after all this time, when I play WoW it still reminds me how much they just copy / pasted EQ. That's fine, in many ways they made a better EQ. But in many other ways it is much worse. Which is why I never can stand WoW for more than a couple of months, been there, done that.

If you like WoW that's great, slobber all over it's nuts, I don't care. But don't fucking tell me I have to like it because you do. Or that only games that copy WoW will succeed (which is just a copy of EQ). And now, in 2018, WoW is one of the ugliest, most boring games around. It hasn't aged well, neither has it's rabid old fuck fans.

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Gottem

WoW was a copy/paste of EQ like cedar plank salmon at a michelin star restaurant is a copy/paste of Filet-O-Fish.

Yes, yes. My point was that people who idolize WoW need to step back and take a look around and stop shoving their fan boi crap in my face.

Grim, you are losing the Pantheon forum game. Don't take the bait.

Grim1 said:

First impression of WoW after playing other very different mmo's, was that it was a fucking carbon copy of EQ, with a better questing interface and shit graphics. Got over that negative first impression and played up to BC and then felt the EQ copy vibes all over again. BC's fucking grind reminded me of Velious, but worse. I quit and didn't go back to WoW for a few years.

Even after all this time, when I play WoW it still reminds me how much they just copy / pasted EQ. That's fine, in many ways they made a better EQ. But in many other ways it is much worse. Which is why I never can stand WoW for more than a couple of months, been there, done that.

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I didn't go straight from EQ-->WoW either, I quit playing EQ in late PoP basically because I graduated HS and went to college and found out partying was more fun than MMOs. Then I got an itch to play again and logged into EQ I wan to say early Omens of War era, it was actually before WoW had came out still, but it was "imminent" and deep into open beta. My guild was gone, the server I was on felt dead, you couldn't do group content any more unless you were in a big guild or had a static group for it. Lots of people had quit even trying and appeared to just farm stuff with 3 box crews (something that had been around forever but was becoming more prevalent as it got easier and easier to run multiple EQs on a single PC.) I also wasn't super happy with my main from the old days in EQ and wanted to try making a new one, what I found out is that when the whole server are max level and mostly asocial farmers or raiders that only log on for raids, it becomes damn near impossible to get a new char caught up under the mechanics of the time (modern EQ it's much easier.)

So I gave up, tried EQ2, hated it. Then tried WoW like a month after it launched and I thought the same thing, that under the "skin" it was very much a carbon copy of EQ. I've always found it weird the old school EQers who lusted in memory of old EQ but despised vanilla era WoW. Vanilla era WoW is probably the closest thing to an EQ like MMO I've seen since the original 1999-2002 era of EQ itself. I actually agree w/you that TBC was annoyingly grindy and I quit twice during BC before coming back, played for a few more years then quit, and I occasionaly try WoW's new expansions and find them to be trash.

ZyyzYzzy said:

Says the guy getting double dick analed by EQ and Pantheon

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Seriously, Fuck you and your lies.

At this point in time EQ is even older, uglier and less relevant than WoW. Haven't played it in years. And I have never once had a positive review about Pantheon, BECAUSE I HAVEN"T PLAYED THE GAME. There is nothing to review.

Unlike you circle jerks, I think for myself. I don't have to be told what to like and what not to like. I won't have an opinion about Pantheon until after I play it.

You shit stains need other people to tell you how to think, what to play, what to enjoy and what to hate. Then base your lives on it without ever actually forming an opinion for yourself. Sucks to be you, really.

I do hope that Pantheon is a good game, but until it is released, I refuse to follow the herd like you retards, and judge something that isn't out yet.

Until then keep the Fallen gifs coming. They are good for the chuckles.

Mat'hir Uth Gan said:

Grim, you are losing the Pantheon forum game. Don't take the bait.

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Slapping these retards back with what they give out is fun sometimes. Not often, but occasionally.