Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Lets start a kick starter to kick start brads kickstarter

delirium_sl said:

Lots of good updates in this thread. The more I hear about Pantheon, the more I am excited. Im in for $40 ($20 for me and $20 for wife for Beta) all I can do right now. Really wish I could go for the $250 deal. I hope that in the future, they have other means to aquire a LSUB like that. Also hope there is Swag. I love me some cloth maps. I got EQ cloth maps from the original through POP and VG cloth map from the collectors set.



Anyway lastnight I had a great idea for one of you guys who paid $300+ to create an item. Ofcorse this idea will only work if Bards make it in but here goes.

Fancy's Flute of Strumming-
Increases the effectiveness of Bard run speed by X% when equipped.
Right click it to summon a Sand Giant vanity pet that follows you around.
When in use the the character animation is the Bard holding the flute and strumming it lol.

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I actually got the $300 pledge, and I am tempted. It would be funny!

Answering tough questions is part of working with clients, welcome to the GD business world. I'm a project manager albeit for finance its the same principles, people will appreciate Brad or whoever coming to levelset and manage their expectations.

Someone put a request for the AMA up? I dont know how they work but that would be a good start.

I think the $300 pledge should be tweaked to the couples pledge. X the rewards by 2 but also offer a second alpha. Women just love that kind of shit.

Yes, do the media rounds with zeal and enthusiasm. It needs to be explained not just how, but WHY you're making this game. We all know. People playing WoW and onward don't. I would almost approach the interviews with a 'we're not taking it anymore' attitude.

Tell us about the deep, dark dungeons, the high fantasy (which there should be more of), the scary, dangerous overworld. Force the point that NO GAME, let alone an MMO, out there today has these qualities, and that YOU and this Kickstarter are going to fix that.

Out of subject, what's the deal with reddit ? i know it grew alot of popularity over the recent years, but why the majority of the devs often neglect their own message board for their Q&A and prefer reddit ? Could post a link there and the q&a could be on rerolled, more publicity for the site at the same time.

Brad i have two questions that are holding me up before my friends and i pledge.

First, (and this is huge for me, could even be a deal breaker)How will the dungeons in Pantheon be as far as rare spawns are concerned?Will it be more like EQ or VG? I preferred EQ style over VG, even though they were both similar. I liked how eq had static ph for the named. In vanguard rares were given several spawn points, so much so, that it was difficult to know if you were even killing the right ph's. It was to the point somtimes that you didn't even camp, you just roamed all around the dungeon trying to get lucky. From what i remember this was done to stop the competition over camps. I think that with this target audience, we don't want easier. We miss camping. We aren't afraid to sit and camp X mob for hours with downtime to talk and socialize. We are fine with one ph in a dungeon holding down a spot for a rare. The best case scenario here is to make it exactly like EQ.

Second.Will mounts be an early level thing?I really think they have the potential for messing the game up. They could easily make travelling a lot less dangerous and SoW worthless when it comes to travelling. Imagine the trains people will make if they can just run all over the zone way faster than mobs can. The only way that i can see to counter this if mounts are very late game, maybe even max level.

I would like to add one more thing Brad. I can only offer this piece of advice to you. Don't get cute. If something worked well in EQ, and people have fond memories of it, don't change it just to change it. If you are unsure of a new idea, fall back on EQ. It's the greatest mmo ever made. Most here will tell you that they would play an exact carbon copy of eq again. Hell, if we just had the people that are playing eq emulated servers donating, we would almost be pledged already. My point is, i hope you are taking the basic EQ model, and jazzing it up a little. Maybe EQ group play, a few instanced dungeons for story, VG class system and maybe a few new ideas. So far everything i've read seems that you are on this path with the exception of the combat system. I am a little concerned with it, and i hope it doesn't get in the way of a great game.I know you would like to offer something new and exciting to the genre. I'm not saying this is all bad, but most people are here not for new ideas, but the old ones that worked so well. Remember that and i think it will serve you well.

I loathe Reddit and absolutely refuse to follow any discussions there. It's complete shit.

There is a lot more traffic on Reddit, SA, and NeoGaf than most forums. People dont understand the formats or for some reason get intimidated at the size. Really once you get used to subscribing to the specific games or sections you like the actual communities are much smaller. Depending on the game, Reddit can have a lot of nonsense though.

NeoGAF has a lot of the industry developers, press, and top players posting in the threads with super nazi moderation so usually you dont get anywhere near the level of clowns you do on most forums.

because the people on their own message board are already pulled in, on reddit they can reach more undecided people.

Finally hit IGN:EverQuest Designer Turns to Kickstarter for New MMO

I looked over on the Rift forums and didn't see any topics about this game posted. Perhaps one of you ladies or gents who has a Rift account could make them aware? Lost of people left VG to go there when SOE put VG on life support.

roger_sl said:

Out of subject, what's the deal with reddit ? i know it grew alot of popularity over the recent years, but why the majority of the devs often neglect their own message board for their Q&A and prefer reddit ? Could post a link there and the q&a could be on rerolled, more publicity for the site at the same time.

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Please don't try and attract reddit users here .

Anyway, this is the input I've seen on other sites that lack the fond memories of EQ: "This looks like every MMO ever but with more focus on grouping", "Screenshot looks bad", "I'm not sure what the point is." "He wants to roll back the last decade of progress in MMOs".

My suggestion might be to really sell the challenge and "old school" aspect as best you can. Something like the dark souls, "Prepare to die" angle. Appeal to the subset who want that challenge and will become enthusiastic about it, because word of mouth needs to be a thing. You're not going to get most people with the 'wow' mindset, so you want to make it clear that you're going for a niche and providing something exciting. Thats my advice: Don't be mealy mouthed when promoting it, just go full steam "This game might not be for you", to some audiences, because if you try to appeal to everyone, no one will want it.

Vandyn_sl said:

Here's the problem and there is no getting around it. This game is being designed for a generation that played EQ back in 1999. Well, the average age of people who played EQ at that time I'd say was probably 18-20. It's 15 years later. That same player is probably in his mid to late 30's now. The odds are is that player doesn't have the time commitment anymore to invest in that type of game.

This is the boat I'm in. I'd love to see a game like EQ again. But I'm also very realistic, knowing I'll never play that game for any long length of time due to time. Plus, I just don't have that kind of patience anymore. I don't think it's a reach that a good majority are like me, especially on this forum. The second obstacle this game is going to have is everyone has an idea of what defines 'hardcore' and believe it or not, those ideas are not the same. Everyone has this romanticized idea of what Everquest was but I think it varies greatly depending on who you ask.

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This is like making an argument that the 50's were all about Rock and Roll, but then everyone grew up and Rock and Roll just became too loud for that generation, so nobody likes it anymore. Or we loved fast cars when we were young, but then had a family and fast cars aren't appealing anymore, so there's no market for fast cars.

Yeah, many of us grew up, got jobs, blah blah. I also played with a ton of people in EQ who had jobs, families, etc. They committed what time they could because the game was good. I'm sorry that YOU may not have the time to play Pantheon, or other games, but that doesn't mean nobody else will. And I think an important part of Pantheon's development will be getting the old-school, nostaligia train moving, but then finding ways to express the vision in ways that newer players who weren't around for EQ and that generation of games will see as appealing.

And don't say modern generations won't see it as appealing because you've got old and boring. A competitive game where you can not only gain power for your character, but feel like a hot-shit and like you're better than other players, because you ARE? This is the kind of thing that appeals to all generations of gamers, especially these days where so much of gaming is about leader-boards and achievements and shit like that. Now, they can stop acting like you're a badass for maxing out WoW gear that everyone else will max out. They can actually have their hard work show, be envied, and somewhat lasting. EQ was awesome, in part, because it let us feel awesome and admired. That's been missing from many mmorpgs that force 'you're a hero' down everyone's throat from day one. I think there's a market for it, and not just to old farts who miss EQ.

At some point, preferably soon, they need to start pitching the game in way that is appealing to newer generations. They--and we--have got to figure out a way to express what made EQ so awesome in ways more than just saying the word Everquest. Stuff like the classic "You're in our world, now" worked because it was a sort of challenge (that was accurate to the scope of the game) and didn't just rely on referencing something pre-existing. Pantheon needs to be the game that people think they'll lose a chance at being powerful, awesome and SOMEBODY if they don't play it. The people who played EQ also felt it just as strong when they weren't playing EQ, because it wasn't just that they were missing dailies, but they were missing opportunities to grow their characters, reputations and self in the game, and in a way that actually mattered to other players.

roger_sl said:

Out of subject, what's the deal with reddit ? i know it grew alot of popularity over the recent years, but why the majority of the devs often neglect their own message board for their Q&A and prefer reddit ? Could post a link there and the q&a could be on rerolled, more publicity for the site at the same time.

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Reddit upvote/downvote system prevents any kind of minority from being heard and eases a burden of moderation. It's the worst kind of fanboy hype, but good for developers.

We're at $90,973 at the end of day 2. Man this IS like a hell level lol.

mhoward48_sl said:

I actually got the $300 pledge, and I am tempted. It would be funny!

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I would love an allusion to Fancy.

Vandyn_sl said:

Here's the problem and there is no getting around it. This game is being designed for a generation that played EQ back in 1999. Well, the average age of people who played EQ at that time I'd say was probably 18-20. It's 15 years later. That same player is probably in his mid to late 30's now. The odds are is that player doesn't have the time commitment anymore to invest in that type of game.

This is the boat I'm in. I'd love to see a game like EQ again. But I'm also very realistic, knowing I'll never play that game for any long length of time due to time. Plus, I just don't have that kind of patience anymore. I don't think it's a reach that a good majority are like me, especially on this forum. The second obstacle this game is going to have is everyone has an idea of what defines 'hardcore' and believe it or not, those ideas are not the same. Everyone has this romanticized idea of what Everquest was but I think it varies greatly depending on who you ask.

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Completely disagree about the time generation thing. I think many of us (I'm 41 started EQ around 26) , now are so sick of the "fast" modern mmo games and do have patience now. I have a wife and kids and far less playtime than then , but rather have an hour or two average a night over a week in a much more EQ/VG style game. Who cares if it takes you a year to max level , or you have to actually take time traveling etc. I want more of a virtual world style game where I look forward to logging into it and am not worried about what I get done that night , but whether I enjoy what time I have in it.

I think you are dead wrong on the older gamers now don't have patience for a game like this. My guess is those of us who went through EQ to the new SWTOR/GW2 style games are more ready for a game that does require more time to "max" out and are patient enough to realize that it will take much longer but if it's enjoyable while doing it that's all that matters.

I don't need a game I can have three max level characters at in a month , porting around a hub/instanced game lobby instead of a virtual world. There are enough of those options out there. If you don't have the patience and it's not for you I completely get that. But there's a substantial portion of us now who won't worry about how fast I can get to X. It's a matter of tastes , and being realistic and patient , an adult with family/career can truly enjoy a game like this if their goal is just to play when they can and enjoy it without any worry of rushing.