Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
I hope this thing is cash shop free and sub-based. I shot a tweet to him about it, maybe Brad will give a little insight into what he's thinking though it's way too early to commit.

I'm anxious to hear what tech they'll end up using, what funding method they'll take, and what name the company will be established under. He started following Mark Rein so UE4 confirmed?

All this talk has me playing Vanguard again.
 
Tmac

Tmac

Adventurer
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
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etchazz_sl said:
me too. i guess 15 years ago it was possible to have 15 different starting cities, but in 2013 (almost 2014) that's just too much to ask for....
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This was weird to read. Have we lowered our expectations from what they were 15 years ago? Developers seem to be biting off more they can chew on the technology side, causing for a misallocation of resources (technology implementation over design implementation).

One of the biggest problems with Vanguard, was their attempt to push the graphical envelope. That's a silly goal for an MMO.

MMO's should always be concerned with art style, but to pursue eye-candy over performance will always take up more resources (design/implementation/stability/etc) than it should. Great art direction doesn't equal pushing the graphical envelope...

Simplicity is key.

Once we get back to that point in MMO's, we will see the reemergence of great content and design. One can hope anyways.
 
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Astral Projection_sl

shitlord
1,268
18
etchazz_sl said:
me too. i guess 15 years ago it was possible to have 15 different starting cities, but in 2013 (almost 2014) that's just too much to ask for....
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Yeah.

leveldesignclassic.jpg
 
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Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Best example of what's wrong with the genre today along these lines is a simple but effective one.

Bioware thought it was more important that their solo cutscenes didn't clash with night/day cycle and weather that they opted to have no time cycle for the world or rain-storms-snow in the actual playable world.

Deciding a cutscene visuals > dynamic changing world shows the idiocy of modern mmo devs.
 
Tmac

Tmac

Adventurer
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Astral Projection_sl said:
Yeah.

leveldesignclassic.jpg
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I think FFVII had the most effective cutscenes I'd ever experienced at that time.

Cutscenes shouldn't be used to progress content, but rather to introduce it. It's along the same lines of branding a zone.

Trying to use cutscenes as content is laughable.
 
Bruman

Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
Dahkoht_sl said:
Best example of what's wrong with the genre today along these lines is a simple but effective one.

Bioware thought it was more important that their solo cutscenes didn't clash with night/day cycle and weather that they opted to have no time cycle for the world or rain-storms-snow in the actual playable world.

Deciding a cutscene visuals > dynamic changing world shows the idiocy of modern mmo devs.
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I'm inclined to agree, but from a business sense, more people want a game rather than virtual world.

Those of us that want a virtual world (like EQ, VG, etc) are in the minority. Many people said, over and over, that the best part of SWTOR was their personal/class story, and it was the main reason to play the game. Maybe if they put that effort into making a virtual world we'd be having a different discussion, but I think it'd be in that "Man SWTOR was a great game, too bad noone bought it or played it really". People want WoW rails.

That's what's great about Brad's new project - it'll be the EQ/VG emphasis on creating a world, but from the start their expectations are properly set. No WoW-style sub numbers, going for a niche market, etc. If there's the chance for a game for "us", this is probably it.
 
Tmac

Tmac

Adventurer
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
9,975
16,997
Dahkoht_sl said:
Best example of what's wrong with the genre today along these lines is a simple but effective one.

Deciding a cutscene visuals > dynamic changing world shows the idiocy of modern mmo devs.
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Mega Man is about 900 KB in size, yet still has a lot of replayability and fun factor...
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
I certainly hope Brad and Co, look at Vanguard class designs.. I had thought they would be copied by other titles but they really have not and some of those classes are the best I have ever played.. a great Bard, Bloodmage, disciple, psionist were my top 4.

This brings up yet another item that has been plucked from new MMOs and why replay value does not exist in many newer MMOs. Having interesting classes to go back and level up make ALT-ing viable.... but Vanguard had the additional attribute of multiple leveling paths.. You could ( and I have ) leveled several classes in several parts of the world through different content.

So 2 things I think I really hope find their way into Brad's project... 1. Diverse interesting classes - hell straight copy of Vanguard's would be fantastic unless SOE minds lol. 2. multiple leveling paths - Make the world like Vanguard, eq or even WoW. Give me 2 reasons to create an ALT 1. interesting classes and 2. new content to explore and like vanguard this could be the game that I continuously revisit over the years.
 
Flobee

Flobee

Vyemm Raider
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Bruman_sl said:
I'm inclined to agree, but from a business sense, more people want a game rather than virtual world.

Those of us that want a virtual world (like EQ, VG, etc) are in the minority. Many people said, over and over, that the best part of SWTOR was their personal/class story, and it was the main reason to play the game. Maybe if they put that effort into making a virtual world we'd be having a different discussion, but I think it'd be in that "Man SWTOR was a great game, too bad noone bought it or played it really". People want WoW rails.

That's what's great about Brad's new project - it'll be the EQ/VG emphasis on creating a world, but from the start their expectations are properly set. No WoW-style sub numbers, going for a niche market, etc. If there's the chance for a game for "us", this is probably it.
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Of course everyone said the story was the best feature of the game, and the only reason to play. It was where the lions-share of their talent and resources seemed to be. (speaking from the perspective of someone who never played though to be fair)

I honestly believe that if a badass mmo 'World' was created, and done correctly, people would buy it. I don't care what the budget or marketing is, if the game is good people are going to hear about it. If you need proof look at a game like Minecraft. Sure it was the first in what became a new genre (as far as I know) but lets be honest, a true mmo world is basically going to be a new genre to the current gamer demographic.

Capture some of that oldschool magic and tie it in with new technology and some innovative new systems and you have a guaranteed meal-ticket
 
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gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Flobee_sl said:
Of course everyone said the story was the best feature of the game, and the only reason to play. It was where the lions-share of their talent and resources seemed to be. (speaking from the perspective of someone who never played though to be fair)
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Yep. Boast all day long about the story and dump endless money into voice actors telling us to collect shit (which we'll inevitably start skipping), and people are going to rip through that experience before the month is up and quit. When your world is a lifeless, instanced piece of trash; subscribers aren't going to stay.

Actual campaign-focused single player games have a hard enough time telling an interesting story, MMOs shouldn't bother trying. Create interesting lore, a world worth exploring, a range of unique classes, races and starting zone, and keep the cutscene, community separating bullshit out.
 
Big Flex

Big Flex

Fitness Fascist
4,314
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gogojira_sl said:
Yep. Boast all day long about the story and dump endless money into voice actors telling us to collect shit (which we'll inevitably start skipping), and people are going to rip through that experience before the month is up and quit. When your world is a lifeless, instanced piece of trash; subscribers aren't going to stay.

Actual campaign-focused single player games have a hard enough time telling an interesting story, MMOs shouldn't bother trying. Create interesting lore, a world worth exploring, a range of unique classes, races and starting zone, and keep the cutscene, community separating bullshit out.
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4srs.
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
Bruman_sl said:
I'm inclined to agree, but from a business sense, more people want a game rather than virtual world.

Those of us that want a virtual world (like EQ, VG, etc) are in the minority.Many people said, over and over, that the best part of SWTOR was their personal/class story, and it was the main reason to play the game. Maybe if they put that effort into making a virtual world we'd be having a different discussion, but I think it'd be in that "Man SWTOR was a great game, too bad noone bought it or played it really". People want WoW rails.

That's what's great about Brad's new project - it'll be the EQ/VG emphasis on creating a world, but from the start their expectations are properly set. No WoW-style sub numbers, going for a niche market, etc. If there's the chance for a game for "us", this is probably it.
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I think if done right said developer will be pleasantly surprised on what they find as far as numbers go. I think the minority is based on the fact that there have been no real "worlds" to play since that '04 era, sans Vanguard/Eve ... The industry has not delivered it and that is why there is a minority, there is no one playing them... because they don't exist.

One thing these "games" have taught me is they wont keep large numbers (or grow them ) of players over time... worlds did, games have missed that mark.
 
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gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Elidroth says:

"Keep your eye on Kickstarter. I'm guessing 'something' will hit within the next 4 to 5 weeks.

Oh.. and you'll have to keep an open mind due to a couple things, but I believe it's on the right track to be the game WE all miss (challenging, engaging, and social)."

Elidroth is an EQ1 dude who originally posted about a hardcore MMO pitch to Smed, which obviously referred to what Brad is cooking up. It looks like he jumped ship with Brad. I'll be interested to know what he means by keeping an open mind, but it probably relates to the project being in an early state. If the project is taking to Kickstarter, I hope the pitch is done with an immense amount of effort and research because there's a distinct difference between the successes and failures.
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
<Gold Donor>
20,290
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I don't agree with many modern implementations of MMOs but I do understand why they are done. 15 starting cities spreads out the population especially if travel starts slow. People want that cool class and to be able to play with their friends within a few minutes. Is this the right way? No, but it is one reason for less starting areas. It also must suck to put work into a city and then see almost no one use it. Ogguk and Grobb were dead by 2001(were never lively) on my server. People usually find one place to congregate and that's it(EC tunnel). Of course, designers could do more to make these places relevant but I think they don't believe it's worth it overall.

I don't agree with WoW's dungeon set up but who expects different from a dungeon finder based game? It's all about the bling in WoW. Get what you want in the most efficient way you like to play. It's a great idea for achievement based players if you can keep the bling coming regularly. Some people are mainly upset that the hamster wheel is easier for everyone to get on than the fact that we are all hamsters in Blizzard's opinion. As long as I'm top hamster right?

Hopefully Brad wants a world that has true difficulty. A place where you can be special in different ways but not in all ways. A place where play instead of gear is the emphasis.
 
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Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
gogojira_sl said:
Elidroth says:

"Keep your eye on Kickstarter. I'm guessing 'something' will hit within the next 4 to 5 weeks.

Oh.. and you'll have to keep an open mind due to a couple things, but I believe it's on the right track to be the game WE all miss (challenging, engaging, and social)."

Elidroth is an EQ1 dude who originally posted about a hardcore MMO pitch to Smed, which obviously referred to what Brad is cooking up. It looks like he jumped ship with Brad. I'll be interested to know what he means by keeping an open mind, but it probably relates to the project being in an early state. If the project is taking to Kickstarter, I hope the pitch is done with an immense amount of effort and research because there's a distinct difference between the successes and failures.
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Is there any link whatsoever from Elidroth to Brad at this point?
hardcore MMO pitch to Smed, which obviously referred to what Brad is cooking up.
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Your guessing here?
It looks like he jumped ship with Brad.
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Based on what? The fact he is submitting a project to kickstarter? Gonna need a bit more here but its a nice idea.

zzeris_sl said:
Hopefully Brad wants a world that has true difficulty. A place where you can be special in different ways but not in all ways. A place where play instead of gear is the emphasis.
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~~rose colored glasses on~~

I remember when you knew how good a player was just by what they were wearing. While I do see the attraction of letting players dye armor and purchase appearance armor to make their character more exciting, it makes everyone appear as if they are a skilled player. I was always of the mindset that if I wanted the "bling" armor, I would have to go earn it. That has been thrown aside for "lets please everyone because Blizzard is kickin our ass" desperation to retain subs. Let return to, if you want it, fuckingearnit. And while unpopular, lets make leveling more difficult again. Anyone else remember when someone dinged 50 you got tells from half the fucking server because it wasrespect? Like being made in the mafia. It was a serious accomplishment to hit top level. Now no one gives a fuck because you can level a character in a couple weeks. Lets put the pride back into playing your character again.
 
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gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Big Flex_sl said:
Meh, we'll see..
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Did you just meh me? Now we have to e-fight.


Merlin_sl said:
Stuff stuff stuff
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I guess I should have elaborated. When Elidroth on HOSS mentioned a hardcore MMO pitch to Smed a month or two back, I put way too time confirming this dude is actually linked to EQ1 and is the actual Elidroth. You're right though, it's definitely assumptions but I guess I got a bit carried away putting the pieces together.

I still believe it's true. They were working on the same game, both talking about a hardcore, niche MMO that appeals to old school fans and created on a lean budget. Brad recently tweeted that they are exploring tech and funding options and now this guy references a Kickstarter in a few weeks. However, I should have noted that it's guesswork on my part.
 
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