Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Pasteton

Pasteton

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Denaut_sl said:
I meant what I said. I think most people's attachment to EQ is nostalgia, and the minority where this isn't true are simply part of a niche that isn't big enough to support itself. I don't think a professionally made "Classic EQ" is viable, and if it is I don't think it would come from someone who has name recognition. For me Vanguard is enough (but not indisputable) evidence.

As a note, I rarely rage-quit threads. I am like ~8 hours ahead of most of the people here so I simply get tired and go to bed. When I get back to the thread the conversation has inevitably moved on and I don't see any point in voluntarily walking on broken glass again.
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I think it's because of people like you that this industry is crap now. You ignore what people are actually telling you to your face, meanwhile saying we don't know what we actually like. You might as well be japanese. Then we get shoved more hub to hub single player questing "mmos" down our throats.

The one thing I can agree with you on is that I doubt mcquaid is the guy to make the next genre busting game. I wish someone with competence however, would take his ideas and implement them in a new game.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
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Merlin_sl said:
You bring up a good point. We had to bust our fucking asses to raid POP. And we did our "homework" so to speak. We didn't just stroll in and were handed those raids. We did our time in Ssraeshza, Umbral, and Vex Thal. We farmed gear to get everyone caught up. We had to up recruiting of yet MORE cleric and chanters. We organized permanent raid groups so everytime we went to raid, we knew exactly which group to be in, where to start, who the group and raid leaders were, and dropping and adding buffers as needed. We did the trials, spend our time in HOH, Zek, Torment, POF, etc. It was a job of sorts. It was a fucking gigantic time investment and you had to be on your game at all times.
That's why it pisses me off when I hear people go,"fuck that. Flagging is bs and POP sucked because it excluded people". Hey asshole, it didn't exclude a fucking person, your ass was lazy and or unable to commit the time and got left out. Tough shit. Those of us who played our asses off, got rewarded. Its not my fault your fucking lazy and want shit handed to you. I worked my ass off for it. Anyway, /rant off.
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You sound kind of jaded from back then. While I do agree that plenty of the assholes bitching about backflagging didn't put in the work there were a few things such as blowable spawns that made it in some cases if you missed the first kill you might be waiting a few weeks to get your shot at. Then again the lower tiers of the plans were easy to flag for just like bane weapons and VT keys were easy to get if you put a little effort into them. Hell I think I remember one of Furor's biggest shitfest rants were over blowable spawns. That and Rallos Zek dropping a fucking cloth helm because it wasn't itemized yet.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
zzeris_sl said:
I saw it and disagree. I saw the fucking wasteland Vanguard was before it went FTP. I saw the wholesale exodus from gamers a few months in because it was a piece of shit. I saw how even FTP couldn't get a large community of gamers to still play the game. Sure, it made enough money to stay afloat and made a small profit over 7 years. It was a failure of epic proportions. I don't have to listen to smed to see or know that. I tried to play that PoS and even FTP didn't scratch my itch enough to go back to barely functioning MMO express.
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Oh no question, the engine was crap. But combat mechanics in a static group dungeon exploring was awesome, despite the crap engine. Certainly helped when there were less people around - every time a person showed up even a "mile" away (or closer but behind a wall) so you couldn't actually see them in game VG had to load everything about that person: all textures, art assets, etc.
 
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Gecko_sl

shitlord
1,482
0
tad10_sl said:
Check your proof buddy. Smed would have closed it down in 2008 if it was unprofitable.
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Yes, let's sell X amount of boxes and less than 12 months later shut down the MMO. Check your common sense there, dude. I personally think Smed drained everything out of this and kept it as long as he personally felt obligated.

You completely ignored the point of my post which was the churn and the fact even F2P nobody played this game.
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
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tad10_sl said:
Oh no question, the engine was crap. But combat mechanics in a static group dungeon exploring was awesome, despite the crap engine. Certainly helped when there were less people around - every time a person showed up even a "mile" away (or closer but behind a wall) so you couldn't actually see them in game VG had to load everything about that person: all textures, art assets, etc.
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Yeah, great ideas I wish they implemented well. Brad had and still has some good ideas. They just didn't make the game well enough to see their work become a profitable and truly enjoyable world. Because I hate playing Wasteland the MMO
 
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Creslin

Trakanon Raider
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Vanguard limped along and we all know it. It wasn't making very much if it was making anything. They may well have lost money on it, we don't really know what it cost them.

Either way who gives a fuck, it was a fail game, and it was a fail game because it wouldnt run on most PCs, so SOE did the smart thing and put it on life support. SWTOR had problems too but it was a flagship product and its problems were far easier to fix than vanguards.

Vanguard needed what it couldn't have, namely for 3 years to go by and AMD and Intel to dev the processors required to make it playable on your average machine.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
50,108
293,071
tad10_sl said:
Check your proof buddy. Smed would have closed it down in 2008 if it was unprofitable.
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You know absolutely nothing about business if you think a game from a company as large Sony couldn't be unprofitable for a couple of years and simply used as a tax write off.
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Gecko_sl said:
Yes, let's sell X amount of boxes and less than 12 months later shut down the MMO. Check your common sense there, dude. I personally think Smed drained everything out of this and kept it as long as he personally felt obligated.

You completely ignored the point of my post which was the churn and the fact even F2P nobody played this game.
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I'm pretty sure I commented on the fact FTP was one of the things that killed the game - they were making more money sub based. And I lot more money in 2009 when there was an actual population.

Having actually played VG from Beta 4 or so in 2006 through 2008 (and on/off from 2009 to 2012). I'm pretty sure I have better idea of the server population of that period than you do. Huge drop in 2009 after Silius canceled the promised raid expansion and it was originally sent off to pasture. Bounce in population at the FTP announcement that rapidly dwindled as all FTP games are wont without heavy investment to come up with reasons for FTP to pay money.

But again, thanks for playing "Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Thread Topics"
 
Zefah

Zefah

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I bet Vanguard was running at a loss for a while. I also bet Smed didn't want to shut it down (or the other games they just announced would be killed off). My hunch is that the orders came from higher up in Sony to kill off anything that wasn't making money and to focus all resources on EQN and the unannounced project.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

Von Clippowicz
<Prior Amod>
50,108
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Creslin_sl said:
Vanguard limped along and we all know it. It wasn't making very much if it was making anything. They may well have lost money on it, we don't really know what it cost them.

Either way who gives a fuck, it was a fail game, and it was a fail game because it wouldnt run on most PCs, so SOE did the smart thing and put it on life support. SWTOR had problems too but it was a flagship product and its problems were far easier to fix than vanguards.
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Which goes back to the question people think I am trolling with. If this game guy couldn't put together a decent game with $40million and a large backer like Microsoft, what makes you think him and a rag tag group of unemployed garage warriors are going to produce something great on $800k making it up as they go along?
 
tad10

tad10

Elisha Dushku
5,518
583
Boozecube_sl said:
You know absolutely nothing about business if you think a game from a company as large Sony couldn't be unprofitable for a couple of years and simply used as a tax write off.
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Yeah because Sony needed additional tax writeoffs given that the company lost money 2008 through 2011? But somehow when they're profitable in 2012 and maybe in 2013 they sunset the game that's supposed to be a tax writeoff? Couldn't be that Smed's FTP strategy was an abject failure.
rolleyes.png
 
arallu

arallu

Golden Knight of the Realm
536
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tad10_sl said:
I'm pretty sure I commented on the fact FTP was one of the things that killed the game - they were making more money sub based. And I lot more money in 2009 when there was an actual population.

Having actually played VG from Beta 4 or so in 2006 through 2008 (and on/off from 2009 to 2012). I'm pretty sure I have better idea of the server population of that period than you do. Huge drop in 2009 after Silius canceled the promised raid expansion and it was originally sent off to pasture. Bounce in population at the FTP announcement that rapidly dwindled as all FTP games are wont without heavy investment to come up with reasons for FTP to pay money.

But again, thanks for playing "Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Thread Topics"
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I agree, I played a ton in 2008-2009, there was a low but steady population. If anything the quote about running it for a loss for 'years' probably alludes to the last ~4 years.
 
Zefah

Zefah

<Gold Donor>
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tad10_sl said:
I'm pretty sure I commented on the fact FTP was one of the things that killed the game - they were making more money sub based. And I lot more money in 2009 when there was an actual population.

Having actually played VG from Beta 4 or so in 2006 through 2008 (and on/off from 2009 to 2012). I'm pretty sure I have better idea of the server population of that period than you do. Huge drop in 2009 after Silius canceled the promised raid expansion and it was originally sent off to pasture. Bounce in population at the FTP announcement that rapidly dwindled as all FTP games are wont without heavy investment to come up with reasons for FTP to pay money.

But again, thanks for playing "Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen Thread Topics"
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Just a guess, but they probably needed like 300 or more subscriptions just to pay for one dedicated developer on the team. That's ignoring any server costs and other costs associated with time taken away from technical staff to handle downtime, patches, upkeep, etc.
 
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Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
Boozecube_sl said:
Yeah people have already pointed out that even with todays level of equipment it still plays like shit. It wasn't just that the specs were to high it's that it was poorly programed.
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Which goes back to my original point years ago. All the design talent in the world means jack nothing if you lack engineering expertise. WoW had the best engineering expertise in the business, and THAT is what led to their success - not any notion of design.

Dem coattails, les ride em.
 
Zefah

Zefah

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Boozecube_sl said:
Yeah people have already pointed out that even with todays level of equipment it still plays like shit. It wasn't just that the specs were to high it's that it was poorly programed.
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Yeah, I still have it on an HDD and booted it up a couple of days ago. The hitching is still a major issue even after they took out a ton of the environmental objects in the game. It's much better on an SSD, but still not smooth. Those hitching issues really killed any chance the game may have had.
 
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