Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Shockingly , I play fantasy mmo's not just for the constant combat , so have no problem with a little downtime. As Laura and other's said , it doesn't have to go full bore EQ 10 min to fully refresh between battles , but 2-3 mins between large pulls for a group to actually , gasp , chat , isn't so fucking bad.

And I don't want new hotness , reinvent the wheel and change everything just to change everything , there's EQN/L Disney Online adventures with Minecraft for that and lots of "actiony" combat and so on released that's different. Every time something tries to make something "different" we've gotten SWTOR watch the cut-scenes and GW2 destroy the classes games.

Fuck "different and new hotness" for McQuaids game. He's said he's going for niche , and is not a AAA publisher , and there's nothing wrong with making a game that is similar to EQ/VG style for those of us who do want that.

Dahkoht_sl said:

Shockingly , I play fantasy mmo's not just for the constant combat , so have no problem with a little downtime. As Laura and other's said , it doesn't have to go full bore EQ 10 min to fully refresh between battles , but 2-3 mins between large pulls for a group to actually , gasp , chat , isn't so fucking bad.

And I don't want new hotness , reinvent the wheel and change everything just to change everything , there's EQN/L Disney Online adventures with Minecraft for that and lots of "actiony" combat and so on released that's different. Every time something tries to make something "different" we've gotten SWTOR watch the cut-scenes and GW2 destroy the classes games.

Fuck "different and new hotness" for McQuaids game. He's said he's going for niche , and is not a AAA publisher , and there's nothing wrong with making a game that is similar to EQ/VG style for those of us who do want that.

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well said sir.

A lot of down time in EQ in regards to groups were really just pullers/tanks working together to pull a room/figure out a dungeon. So casters would just med during those times. That is an example of great downtime!

Fish1_sl said:

Also I don't get why Vanguard's classes are praised so much, I think they are pretty poor. They dont work that much differently to EQ apart from the finishers/counterspells and stuff which are a pretty boring and insignificant gimmick.

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Son, you've gone full retard. You can't denounce Vanguard in one breath as a WoW clone, while unabashedly praising EQ design, and then turn around and try to again reject Vanguard but this time under the premise it didn't do much different from EQ. By your logic EQ was just a shitty WoW clone.

We get it. You let Vanguard touch you in no-no spots and now feel dirty. But seriously, you're going to rail against Vanguard's classed and combat? You done lost yo' mind.

There's a pretty big difference between intelligently discussing game design and just blathering on like a fucking moron spewing buzz words and cliches like WoW clone. Think smarter, not retarder.

Dahkoht_sl said:

And I don't want new hotness , reinvent the wheel and change everything just to change everything , there's EQN/L Disney Online adventures with Minecraft for that and lots of "actiony" combat and so on released that's different. Every time something tries to make something "different" we've gotten SWTOR watch the cut-scenes and GW2 destroy the classes games.

Fuck "different and new hotness" for McQuaids game. He's said he's going for niche , and is not a AAA publisher , and there's nothing wrong with making a game that is similar to EQ/VG style for those of us who do want that.

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You need upgrades and new stuff or you have literally nothing to sell. New and hotness does not mean completely different. If you want to play EQ or VG, they are still around. I'm enjoying P1999 quite a bit.

Fuck making a clone of EQ. There are plenty of variants. What I want is a Dark Souls feel in a dynamic world with a good class based system with deep factions and an open sandbox feel. Get rid of zoning, long static camps, and an unchanging world and that's enough hotness to make a successful MMO.

popsicledeath_sl said:

Think smarter, not retarder.

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Lulz

Gecko_sl said:

You need upgrades and new stuff or you have literally nothing to sell. New and hotness does not mean completely different. If you want to play EQ or VG, they are still around. I'm enjoying P1999 quite a bit.

Fuck making a clone of EQ. There are plenty of variants. What I want is a Dark Souls feel in a dynamic world with a good class based system with deep factions and an open sandbox feel. Get rid of zoning, long static camps, and an unchanging world and that's enough hotness to make a successful MMO.

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Then you need to be asking for that in another thread for a AAA mmorpg budget from a publisher willing to do that.

Read the title of the thread , this is McQuaid's game, who has said specifically it's niche , high fantasy , and is geared for EQ/VG fans. It's what he wants to make and it's there's not going to be a budget for a "dark souls , no zones , dynamic world and a partridge in a pear tree" game.

He at best can pull off a small budget (in mmo terms ) revamp mix of EQ/VG with better graphics. What you want isn't a bad idea , but it's asking for it from a dev/publisher who has specifically said that's not what he's going for. What's the point in that ?

It's like asking/complaining about someone who says they are going to remake a modern version of Panzer General with the same top down/turn based, hex style ,with modern graphics and more multiplayer options , but you want a 3d real time strategy game with all the whistles.

Convo_sl said:

A lot of down time in EQ in regards to groups were really just pullers/tanks working together to pull a room/figure out a dungeon. So casters would just med during those times. That is an example of great downtime!

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I liked how in Vanguard there were more options for pulling and cc. So, while there was still downtime, more people were more often involved in some way. The conversation was often what you could do as a class/player to help a situation, not just sitting there playing gems or taking care of Merlin's children.

popsicledeath_sl said:

I liked how in Vanguard there were more options for pulling and cc. So, while there was still downtime, more people were more often involved in some way. The conversation was often what you could do as a class/player to help a situation, not just sitting there playing gems or taking care of Merlin's children.

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I live rent free in Popsicles head.

Man the circle jerk is strong in this thread.

This thread is a long time coming... It's what people have been asking someone to do in the industry for years. Some lost folks found themselves a home finally. Don't resist our outcast nation!

Tmac47_sl said:

Pretty sure someone said this in the original Vanguard thread at FoH...

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Nah.. EQ was still doing ok at that point.. The gap/time in between has grown with nothing but disappointments that left a lot of us unsatisfied.

I have no delusions here.. I'm aware there is a huge risk with this project. I think most of us realize that is the case with most MMO's. Doesn't mean we can't enjoy the ride and support something a lot of us having been asking for. Keep the I told you so comments coming.. 3 years from now they might give you a good day of glory=P

Convo_sl said:

Nah.. EQ was still doing ok at that point.. The gap/time in between has grown with nothing but disappointments that didn't leave some us exactly satisfied.

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Exactly. Vanguard was disappointing, but there were still options. The timing right now makes Brad's new project ripe for so much hype and hope that whether it succeeds or fails, it will at least be spectacular.

So when is this kickstarter gonna launch? Any word?

Dahkoht_sl said:

Then you need to be asking for that in another thread for a AAA mmorpg budget from a publisher willing to do that.

Read the title of the thread , this is McQuaid's game, who has said specifically it's niche , high fantasy , and is geared for EQ/VG fans. It's what he wants to make and it's there's not going to be a budget for a "dark souls , no zones , dynamic world and a partridge in a pear tree" game.

He at best can pull off a small budget (in mmo terms ) revamp mix of EQ/VG with better graphics. What you want isn't a bad idea , but it's asking for it from a dev/publisher who has specifically said that's not what he's going for. What's the point in that ?

It's like asking/complaining about someone who says they are going to remake a modern version of Panzer General with the same top down/turn based, hex style ,with modern graphics and more multiplayer options , but you want a 3d real time strategy game with all the whistles.

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I think you're aiming too low. EQ was made on a pretty small budget 15 years ago. The game I'm looking for likewise does not require AAA money, and much of the tech is already out there.

What exactly do you feel should be in this game? Just better graphics? Should it just be an EQ clone? I keep seeing people say make it EQ like. I personally think without some sort of advancement, it won't even attract a niche audience.

I think having a 'dark' feel, with some dynamic elements as well as broader factions doesn't exactly require Star Wars TOR money. I'm not talking EQ Next levels of change, but just add in rotating dynamic content and change, and you have something with at least a bit more immersion which to me was EQs strong point.

I haven't heard anything really from Mcquaid except a lot of silliness. He wants a theme park and a sandbox? He doesn't have a demo? This thread is more about wishful thinking, so that's my .02c of hope and change!

popsicledeath_sl said:

Exactly. Vanguard was disappointing, but there were still options. The timing right now makes Brad's new project ripe for so much hype and hope that whether it succeeds or fails, it will at least be spectacular.

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I think maybe this is more obviously to players like us because we tend to pick up more on the "bring back the good ole days" posts from different forums. There was a lot of them in regards to EQN.. not just here but a lot of places and I think the disappointment some players felt was lifted at the right time by Brad. Timing was actually perfect

@ Gecko-I disagree.. Like EQ would certainly attract people. That's exactly the crowd he is catering to.. Thus the reason for his twitter comment. With that said.. I want your game made too and really the Dark Souls people should be the ones to do that.. Have they ever talked publicly about it?

Probably 2-3 weeks Quaid

Quaid_sl said:

So when is this kickstarter gonna launch? Any word?

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Brad McQuaid ?@Aradune 31 Oct
dialog with our future players! We hope to have our kickstarter page up in the next 3 weeks or so.

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So another week or two.

Convo_sl said:

@ Gecko-I disagree.. Like EQ would certainly attract people. That's exactly the crowd he is catering to.. Thus the reason for his twitter comment. With that said.. I want your game made too and really the Dark Souls people should be the ones to do that.. Have they ever talked publicly about it?

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I love Dark Souls and I'm looking forward to their sequel, but I'm not looking for Dark Souls actiony gameplay in an MMO, just the environment and feel which stole a lot from AD&Ds Tomb of Horrors and many other modules and 'felt' like what I had been missing immersion wise from MMOs. Graphics wise I love DS, and I'm not a big fan of 'stylized' graphics.

I still feel to this day the EQ class system was 'perfect'. I'd actually do very a few changes and lift as much as possible from the original game. It synergizes nicely with the feel of the darker environment from my first paragraph with the AD&D link. I also like the way original EQ handled factions. Again, something that can be tweaked but design wise is stellar.

I think what Brad was aiming for with Vanguards world should be reattempted on a far smaller scale. Then throw in a small amount of dynamic content and open world change and voila you have a great niche MMO. If traps move around dungeons, then it adds more of a sense of adventure. Likewise with NPCs. Basically, I'd want to get rid of wiki's with places one needs to camp for items, or static raiding, but keep all the excellent parts of original EQ.

Then add content and sell it 'module' style and I think this'd be a niche game many of us would want to play. It carries many of the better parts of EQ, has a focus on grouping, and yet isn't all static farming, but content and faction driven.