Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Mr Creed_sl said:

That's kinda reaching, server population and number of servers are an important topic but they can hopefully hit the right size. Doesnt really matter if they have 5 full servers to EQs 50 then.

The better question is what ways can be used to keep all level ranges healthy - I think only having 20 levels is a good step in that direction.

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What's reaching? You don't even argue a point, because I wasn't even arguing something. Just pointing out people can't assume it would work for Pantheon because it was in EQ.

Yeah, both EQ and Pantheon will have servers. No shit.

Pantheon is going to be niche, meaning they'll need to be very deliberate in how they design the game for that target market, they can't just shit out a world and let the players figure it out like EQ did and was successful doing because it was enough it existed at all. Pantheon is going to have to be very calculated in all their decisions, where EQ didn't have that luxury or even that need, imo.

Pantheon is going to be small scale in pretty much every way, whether its focusing on the content development team or actual size of the world. I don't think the world is ever going to be as big and sprawling as EQ even at launch. Spending one day just traveling to a new continent in the hopes of getting a group there the next day just isn't going to work these days, I don't think, for even the most self-proclaimed hardcore gamer. There ARE going to have to be compromises when it comes to things like travel, and because the team and game and everything is small scale, they're going to have to be very calculated in how they approach things, not just shit out a world and let us have at it.

My guess is because of these things the servers will probably be less populated than we're used to and even that EQ was at the start. We'll have a tighter, more focused game. Over population can be taken care of with transfers instead of just having some servers where everything is perma-killed and others with one group in LGuk. I don't think we'll get the huge, sprawling world like Kunark to support large server populations.

I guess I find you're reaching. My point was that it's not the same project, so people can't just apply the same arguments they've been arguing since '99. At some point they'll have to actually look at the here and now, not live in the past, and join the discussion, not just wait for an opportunity to apply the same arguments they've been applying to everything for 15 years. I mean, they'll try, of course, but that doesn't mean it's relevant.

So, since we don't disagree on anything except apparently that the other person is reaching... for something...

I think the better question is address by building a world that is designed to keep players returning to cities, starting adventuring from cities, quests from cities, etc. A ton of outposts wasn't the answer to bringing community together in open worlds. I think the answer is almost all game content funneling players through cities, sending them back to cities, giving them reason to start each game session in cities, etc.

Merlin_sl said:

So all classes should be able to do all things. That is actually what you are saying. That classes should not be interdependent on each other because it limits their usefulness. So lets take porting away from druids and wizards. Lets take KEI away from chantys. Lets take healing away from clerics. Lets take tracking away from rangers. And in each case, let us add these utilities and give them to each player so they are not dependent on other classes. Lets make this game more like GW2 or EQN. Every player is able to be self-dependent and no one will ever have to look for any specific class when forming groups. Gotcha.

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I don't understand how certain classes are able to bind wherever the hell they want. How does that benefit anyone but the caster? Why not make it like vanilla WoW without the meeting stones, group dies and everyone hauls ass back.

Vandyn_sl said:

I don't understand how certain classes are able to bind wherever the hell they want. How does that benefit anyone but the caster? Why not make it like vanilla WoW without the meeting stones, group dies and everyone hauls ass back.

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Your basically saying,"Why should each class have abilities that make them unique? It only benefits them". Uhhhhh, if it hasn't been explained by now I have no idea how to make it more clear.

Casters were squishy so there had to be some trade-off. I seriously don't understand why people want classes to be homogenized. Not once in EQ was I pissed that casters could bind or sometimes solo stuff I couldn't. I could train most stuff without getting killed while a caster would die in a few hits.

Merlin_sl said:

So all classes should be able to do all things. That is actually what you are saying. That classes should not be interdependent on each other because it limits their usefulness. So lets take porting away from druids and wizards. Lets take KEI away from chantys. Lets take healing away from clerics. Lets take tracking away from rangers. And in each case, let us add these utilities and give them to each player so they are not dependent on other classes. Lets make this game more like GW2 or EQN. Every player is able to be self-dependent and no one will ever have to look for any specific class when forming groups. Gotcha.

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Yeah, classes definitely didn't share abilities in EQ, or otherwise make up the difference with "similar" abilities. Each and every class was its own, unique special snowflake. It never ceases to amaze me how much nostalgia clouds the judgement of former EQ players.

Merlin_sl said:

Your basically saying,"Why should each class have abilities that make them unique? It only benefits them". Uhhhhh, if it hasn't been explained by now I have no idea how to make it more clear.

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So, a class can either have ONE major aspect that defines them, or nothing that defines them at all?

Again, this reminds me of the fucking mouth breathing retards who ranted in Vanguard because they felt nobody but them playing a cleric should ever be allowed to heal a group. Why? Because other healing classes that are also viable and fun to play is bad for the game? Or suddenly assholes who got their dicks sucked in EQ for the rolling a CLASS that was needed despite nobody liking them suddenly had to grow a personality and some skills to be WANTED instead of relying on being NEEDED.

I guess I always enjoyed playing the classes that weren't needed, because then when I got picked for groups I knew it was because I was wanted.

But, boohoo, they might take away the thing that kept people groveling at your feet in EQ. That wasn't social interaction or community building. That was you being rewarded for being anti-social. Anti-social is literally the opposite of social.

Basically, I feel having to relying on two classes for the majority of travel is as community destroying as an instant port dungeon finder. Druids and Wizards were part of the problem in EQ, not part of what built a great community.

Also to keep in mind , hopefully , with servers with no cross server bullshit , a smaller crowd to begin with into this sort of thing , reputation again will matter.

You will recognize names on your server once again , not just from your guild , and if you are good or even just friendly and competent people will remember.

Not just for combat and getting in groups , but things like , oh I see Dahkoht looking for a port in chat , he gave me SoW and Chloro multiple times on the run without even asking , I owe it to him to help him out , and so on.

Things like that add up over time , and yes there might be times you don't get that port or buff you need right then and so be it , but more often than not , if you were a decent player and not a complete asshat in chat , there would be someone who would help you out.

I just like the idea of true interdependence between the classes for most aspects of the game , both combat and non.

popsicledeath_sl said:

So, a class can either have ONE major aspect that defines them, or nothing that defines them at all?

Again, this reminds me of the fucking mouth breathing retards who ranted in Vanguard because they felt nobody but them playing a cleric should ever be allowed to heal a group. Why? Because other healing classes that are also viable and fun to play is bad for the game? Or suddenly assholes who got their dicks sucked in EQ for the rolling a CLASS that was needed despite nobody liking them suddenly had to grow a personality and some skills to be WANTED instead of relying on being NEEDED.

I guess I always enjoyed playing the classes that weren't needed, because then when I got picked for groups I knew it was because I was wanted.

But, boohoo, they might take away the thing that kept people groveling at your feet in EQ. That wasn't social interaction or community building. That was you being rewarded for being anti-social. Anti-social is literally the opposite of social.

Basically, I feel having to relying on two classes for the majority of travel is as community destroying as an instant port dungeon finder. Druids and Wizards were part of the problem in EQ, not part of what built a great community.

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The spires only took 15 minutes. You had a choice.

happy 300

I was a troll SK through every expansion, from vanilla onward. So you can axe the lecturing about a needed or not needed class.

SUBclasses shared abilities in EQ, not classes. Everyone didn't have gate. Everyone didn't have bind. Everyone didn't have port to EC druid ring. Everyone didn't have these for a reason. And this was the impetus that fostered a community: not because they were required, but because they helped so much that it was a boon to wait & interact to get them, which is the ideal situation you want in a MMOG. People of all levels were around each other in places like EC, Kelethin, and even Oasis. A SoW was just as useful (notneeded) at level 50 as level 9. A druid/wizzy port was just as useful at level 50 as level 1. This is what you want, the ideal interdependency of ALL level ranges by ALL level ranges & the balance grown from that. No melee ever cared much that a wizard had bind.

Anyone watching the twitch interview? At work so any new info would be appreciated.

Convo_sl said:

Anyone watching the twitch interview? At work so any new info would be appreciated.

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Same ol same ol, really. Pretty good chat, but nothing really new. Only half listening to it, though.

Convo_sl said:

Anyone watching the twitch interview? At work so any new info would be appreciated.

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They released some info on traveling and the wizard class. I only caught the end of it, but from my understanding there will be like magical 'ley lines' that are like wild, uncontrolled magic. So the ley lines will be hard to get to, and will have unpredictable results. Also they mentioned that the wizard class could be effected by these ley lines, causing them to go berserk or some shit like that

EDIT: To clarify... the ley lines would be a form of teleportation around the world

And some more... they are adding crossover support with P1999. Velious beta coming this month, pledging to pantheon will net you rewards within p1999. xp pots etc

Convo_sl said:

Anyone watching the twitch interview? At work so any new info would be appreciated.

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P99 giving early access to Velious (and other items on p99) for donating to Pantheon. Should get a few backers for that.

Apparently Project 99 is going to offer some sort of system where more Pantheon gets funded, the more benefits players on the P99 servers get. Including a system where you get P99 rewards for pledging... so rewards from Pantheon and pledge tiers for P99 as well.

RMT may fund Pantheon, basically, which is awesome if not a bit shady.

popsicledeath_sl said:

RMT may fund Pantheon, basically, which is awesome if not a bit shady.

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I believe the word is ironic.

Yea, definitely unexpected but I imagine its going to pull in some cash

Ley Lines are interesting.. Guessing they will be predetermined landmarks? Maybe the option is player or NPC for port.. wouldn't surprise me..

popsicledeath_sl said:

Apparently Project 99 is going to offer some sort of system where more Pantheon gets funded, the more benefits players on the P99 servers get. Including a system where you get P99 rewards for pledging... so rewards from Pantheon and pledge tiers for P99 as well.

RMT may fund Pantheon, basically, which is awesome if not a bit shady.

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New piece of info on Teleporting:

There will be "pockets of energy" that certain classes can use to teleport to other "pockets". However, they are dangerous to use and could be guarded by non-trivial Mage mobs and/or teleport you to a dangerous section of the world. They could also give you negative buffs/effects such as blurring your screen.