Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
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popsicledeath_sl said:
My approach had always been that I was pledging for the outside chance at seeing a game, but moreso for a front row seat to the MMO version of a demolition derby. That's not even fun now, because the only people buying into this project are so fucking delusional and fanatical it's boring. And the chance of a game actually coming from this keeps plummeting. I really don't even see much value or entertainment in failure at this point. They've done so poorly they're making themselves irrelevant, which is the worst possible situation.
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No you are right and I have to be honest , when I was putting a few hundred pledge in the Kickstarter I knew also there was a decent chance this game wouldn't be made , but it just seemed like if they got 800k publicly through KS , then went to private funding and so on , there was a reasonable chance of it happening , plus the entertainment value as you said of being privy to extra early testing and dev guild and so on if made it to alpha.

So I was betting say 50/50 this thing ever gets made , I'll chance it.

Putting money into that private site now which is guaranteed to get less than the KS though and him begging publicly for investors on twitter ?

Less than 10% chance this thing gets made.

Am I'm not really raging with this question , but curious , how many blatantly stupid decisions does Brad have to make before someone stops giving him money ?
 
Vandyn

Vandyn

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Convo_sl said:
I hope not. There was a disclaimer at the end. I'm hoping if anything it's tuned to not be a viable option. I would of rather seen a tradeskill item like a survival kit instead of them using a god. At least the community, and the economy benefit that way.
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They basically put themselves in a no win situation by even introducing it. Now, if they make the exp penalty too light, well everyone will use it then and corpse runs become non-existent. On the other hand, make it too heavy handed and it gets to the point where no one uses it to which point you'll get bitching from the other end where they see a service is in game but is unusable due to the high cost of it (exp). At least when you did it in WoW and paid the angel at the shrine your equipment took a durability hit.

Have they talked at all about armor/weapons having durability?
 
Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
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Lithose_sl said:
Stuff
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The issue being, primarily, that there is a crazily vocal minority of the playerbase that wants the buggy regardless of any benefits from progress since then. Yes, lots of things can be gained by conceptualizing what could happen in an environment that wasn't accommodating for the jet. But completely negating the benefits of the jet is equally as terrible as negating the benefits of animal borne labor. The problem is that the people who think this is the greatest thing ever (given initial responses) is that they are wishing to return to a simpler time (not a more difficult/complex time) when the only things you gave a shit about were in buggy distance. But they desire jet level ranges of content. That is the cognitive dissonance that is occurring.

It is literally the concept of "Take advantage of modern technology but don't impose modern technology in my technologically backwards world!"

Shit is cray.
 
Big Flex

Big Flex

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again, that was the entire concept which the game was presented as encompassing and the small player base to which the game was marketed toward.

You can't market a horse, then talk about strapping a ramjet engine on it and expect to please everybody.

rrr_img_60223.jpg
 
Soygen

Soygen

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Big Flex_sl said:
again, that was the entire concept which the game was presented as encompassing and the small player base to which the game was marketed toward.
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Fair enough, but the problem is that Brad and that "small player base" didn't realize just how small they were. Now they do and it's time to either lower your budget by about 75% or try and make a product that will bring in more people.
 
Big Flex

Big Flex

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Soygen_sl said:
Fair enough, but the problem is that Brad and that "small player base" didn't realize just how small they were. Now they do and it's time to either lower your budget by about 75% or try and make a product that will bring in more people.
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Again, don't blame poor execution and Brad & Salim's poor name on lack of enthusiasm for a concept. In addition, the kickstarter was literally so bad, Brad could have been marketing chocolate that makes you lose weight and shit gold and you'd still have had a lukewarm reception.
 
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Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
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Again as a direct example in the same range.

Camelot Unchained by City State Entertainment Kickstarter

Camelot Unchained

The CU Kickstarter doesn't even have all that much more content on it , but it's better organized and looks better ,and from the beginning it did.

Comparing the websites is laughable.

But the kicker is you couldn't get Jacobs to shut up during the Kickstarter , he was fucking everywhere all the time. HE was , not other team members in his place , HE was. From posting on comments to articles on Massively to mmorpg to the KS itself and other places. Everywhere.

And his answers weren't yes we do X , no wait we are doing Y , oh would you prefer Z ? We will do that then.

So you have two old school developers EQ/DAOC who have had some screwups later on VG/WAR , and now are trying this route.

Compare the two and it's a study in how to do it right , and how to fuck it up from the very start in every possible way.
 
Rezz

Rezz

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I think this is more of a reality check to the viability of an "oldschool" mmo than anything else. Initially they sought the P1999 folk, and when realizing that there wasn't enough money there, they went elsewhere. Which negated any goodwill they had from the p1999 people. I agree with Soygen. They thought there was a lot more people champing at the bit for 1999 era games with 2014 graphics. They discovered that wasn't the case and instead of ramping back their requirements, they tried to appeal to a broader, less 1999-era audience. And it is still in the process of backfiring.

And addressing the PVP point Big Flex just made: EQ wasn't about PVP, unless you define PVP as strictly content denial and nothing more. 3 servers out of 30 does not a PVP game make. Going after the EQ crowd means you are going after people interested in content denial, not PVP (on average. 1/10 isn't a good limiter to define a metric)
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Rezz_sl said:
I think this is more of a reality check to the viability of an "oldschool" mmo than anything else. Initially they sought the P1999 folk, and when realizing that there wasn't enough money there, they went elsewhere. Which negated any goodwill they had from the p1999 people. I agree with Soygen. They thought there was a lot more people champing at the bit for 1999 era games with 2014 graphics. They discovered that wasn't the case and instead of ramping back their requirements, they tried to appeal to a broader, less 1999-era audience. And it is still in the process of backfiring.
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There is a lot of variables at play here to just flat out say there is not market there because of this KS.

What I think they greatly underestimated is the KS itself. I think McQuaid thought that just putting up the KS with "Renowned EQ creator" on it would garner millions of dollars.
 
Big Flex

Big Flex

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PvP ref was to Camelot Unchained, which has no PvE content.

And the reception at p99 was "Fuck that." for the most part due to Brad and Salim's involvement, as well as the extremely lackluster Kickstarter. P99 has thousands of players, and very few, less than 100 backed this project, and if any crowd wants a new/old game, it'd be them right?

If I pushed a engine that ran on water on Kickstarter, with bernie madoff as the CEO and a napkin sketch someone else created for an unrelated product years ago as my only tangible asset, then stated it ran only on salt water, then only fresh water, then on gasoline, and then that the money will go to paying myself and bernie for setting up the KS and not said product I don't think I'd get to far either. That doesn't mean people wouldn't want a water-powered engine.
 
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Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
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mkopec_sl said:
There is a lot of variables at play here to just flat out say there is not market there because of this KS.

What I think they greatly underestimated is the KS itself. I think McQuaid thought that just putting up the KS with "Renowned EQ creator" on it would garner millions of dollars.
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I genuinely think he is still in this mode and hasn't learned his lesson on the Kickstarter.

I believe his plan in his head is ok , get 200k from folks private website funding , do some very early stuff so I can show a little more , and someone will want to buy us up and fund us into the millions because "it will rock" and these other people just can't see that yet.

No , really , I think he really believes this is going to happen.
 
Big Flex

Big Flex

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Soygen_sl said:
Right, so a completely different audience than whatever the Pantheon audience is or is supposed to be.
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So either there is more PvP fans than PvE fans, which we both know isn't true, or that the CU kickstarter was ran so much better than Pantheon's.
 
Kaines

Kaines

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Big Flex_sl said:
Bro haven't you heard? Throwback games with PvP are business suicide and nobody wants to play those.
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Why do you insist on creating straw-man arguments when discussing the viability of an authentic recreation of EQ? Consols with 2 controllers, RvR MMO's, old-school 8-bit games, Diablo II? Really? Yeah, I engaged you bit on this, but these are all straw-mans to the point that an authentic recreation of EQ-style MMO doens't have the market share necessary to justify its creation. Point to all the other staw-man KS's, games, development teams you want to. NONE of them are going for an EQ-clone. They are all doing things that may be "retro", but are also far different than what EQ gave us. I love retro gaming too, and have an NES emulator on my comp specifically so I can load up FF1 every so often and play through it because I love the game. But I'll be damned if an RPG company is going to recreate that game in today's market.
 
Big Flex

Big Flex

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Kaines_sl said:
Why do you insist on creating straw-man arguments when discussing the viability of an authentic recreation of EQ? Consols with 2 controllers, RvR MMO's, old-school 8-bit games, Diablo II? Really? Yeah, I engaged you bit on this, but these are all straw-mans to the point that an authentic recreation of EQ-style MMO doens't have the market share necessary to justify its creation. Point to all the other staw-man KS's, games, development teams you want to. NONE of them are going for an EQ-clone. They are all doing things that may be "retro", but are also far different than what EQ gave us. I love retro gaming too, and have an NES emulator on my comp specifically so I can load up FF1 every so often and play through it because I love the game. But I'll be damned if an RPG company is going to recreate that game in today's market.
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They do, for mobile devices, all the time. Check out an app store. Antiquated notions like side scrolling platform games and turn-based combat RPGs are still in demand.
 
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Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
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Big Flex_sl said:
So either there is more PvP fans than PvE fans, which we both know isn't true, or that the CU kickstarter was ran so much better than Pantheon's.
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Pretty much this.

Using Jacob's CU as a comparison shows that yes , the quality of the KS does play a huge role in this. Jacobs got 15k people to give over 2 million for an old school PVP game.

EQ (and PVE in general over PVP for mmos) both have far more fans than DAOC ever did, yet Brad's failure of a KS can't get 3k backers.

The reason is suddenly everyone wants old school PVP game instead of PVE ?

(while I'm a pvp whore and would love this to be the case , I know it is not)
 
Soygen

Soygen

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Big Flex_sl said:
So either there is more PvP fans than PvE fans, which we both know isn't true, or that the CU kickstarter was ran so much better than Pantheon's.
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I'm not sure what you're saying. I'm saying that the people who want EQ-like whatever are, as a majority, not the same group or type of gamers who are donating for Camelot. The quality of the Kickstarters being completely equal, I still think Camelot would have fared much better. Unfortunately for all of us, Virtual Realms failed miserably with their KS so all we can do is mentally masturbate about it here.
 
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