Tauro
Bronze Knight of the Realm
- 371
- 26
New update for anyone interested, post KS plans:
Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen by Visionary Realms, Inc. Kickstarter
Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen by Visionary Realms, Inc. Kickstarter
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
Mr Creed
Too old for this shit
- 2,394
- 287
That seems to be the case and unfortunately the people still willing to give him money are the ones most likely to overlook or ignore that detail.
The thing is that setting those issues aside is a tall order.
Cinge
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
- 7,371
- 2,444
I think its funny that people have to "Get it" in the first place. God forbid someone enjoys something you don't and if they do , they obviously have something wrong with them and must be made to see the Light! And it's idiots on both side that do this stupid shit.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,547
- 11,831
So, the donations will have a higher percent going to the game development, the tiers will be fixed as they finally learned what players want, and the new website will be the community that the KS and fan forums just couldn't be.... Wow, great, why didn't they just skip KS all together! Instead of just admitting they fucked this up, and are going to try again and do better, they're taking the "We didn't really care that much anyways!" approach we know is bullshit. Or actually, we know they didn't care enough, or they would
This is a great idea for a insular pay-only section of a forum:
They're basically still under the impression the best way to do anything in life is to surround yourself with an insular community of yes men.
If you care about this project or this type of game, now might be your last chance for years to tell them anything at all they might not want to hear. Not that it has helped so far.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,411
- 187
It wasn't that bad man... people are blowing this way out... as I said before, I didn't have that much trouble running vangaurd in fact it ran great for me most of the time. It was unfortunate at launch that there was so much unfinished content and they had technical issues that did affect many folks, I guess I was lucky.
VG runs better than eq2 to this day... and people don't shit all over eq2 for its tech fail.
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
- 1,411
- 187
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,547
- 11,831
So, the winners in all this that proved to be cunning veterans and visionaries are the Project99 guys? Have they gotten a big boost from the publicity of all this and the amount of people playing P99 'until' Pantheon, or does it just seem that way?
Was this all a conspiracy of the P99 guys, or SOE to make EQN look like the better option than an old-school style game? I'm not yet sure.
Was this all a conspiracy of the P99 guys, or SOE to make EQN look like the better option than an old-school style game? I'm not yet sure.
Big Flex
Fitness Fascist
- 4,314
- 3,166
Vandyn
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 3,656
- 1,382
If you hype a game to have a certain number of features and the game does not deliver on those features then don't be surprised when the fans of that game feel let down. Vanguard not only failed to launch with many of those features but some of which never made it into the game. That game was in development for 4+ years. 4 years and what resulted was a broken, incomplete mess. Very few games if any ever recover from that. But every game, even games that are broken have their dedicated legion of fans. Vanguard is no different. As we see, neither is Pantheon.
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You are wasting your time at this point. Those who are drunk on the Pantheon Kool Aid aren't able to be reasoned with. Might as well just nod and smile at them and move right on past that shit.
I'm with you.
And it's quite possible to want a game of this type , but still see that Brad is a fucking idiot when it comes to business/management and this Kickstarter is pathetic.
I think it's fairly stupid to imply you have to support Brad and any of his horrific shit or you don't like these types of games.
Kaines
Potato Supreme
- 18,385
- 51,724
Reading the Raid Discussion and RnF forums on P1999's forums also reminds me why certain "advances" in MMO design were much needed. I still reflexively twitch reading about multiple guilds camping trackers and camping entire raid forces at zonelines then a mad rush/train/KS shitfest that follows. Obviously there are people who enjoy that type of gaming, I'm just glad there were more than enough who did not that the MMO market evolved along a different ruleset.
Kaines
Potato Supreme
- 18,385
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- 54,539
- 324,135
That's right, you tell em. Every game not EQ is a bag of shit and should be hated. You pansy faggots and your other opinions and MMO's, how dare you like something I don't like.
You think the genre hasevolved? Are you serious right now? Anyone who comes here and states the genre evolved is flat out trolling or WOW was their first MMO.
You want easy mode? That's fine. There is plenty of games out there where you can coast through all the content, level up in less then a week, have really good gear drop for ya with little effort, and give you ports to zap you around in seconds. They will also give you nice safe passages to find the quest giver with the huge question mark over his head, and then giving you wisps to find all the parts of the quest in under 15 minutes. Go play GW2 or WOW. Great games for what they are its just not for us.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
- 7,547
- 11,831
I'm real mad, bros!
I've very disheartened at the way the Pantheon Kickstarter was started, but even more so with how they're finishing it. It seems to me they've given up. They were basically absent for a week, and when they come back it's clear they weren't working on something to get the KS finished strong, but working on setting up Plan B once the KS failed It's clear they've given up on the KS, so why shouldn't I?
And, instead of just admitting they screwed up the KS are would try again or actually do work on their own, their answer is for us to give them money directly on a private website? No thank you. Not a chance.
They failed on a fairly public, tried and true, method like Kickstarter that others in very similar positions have used to great success, and Kickstarter has at least some level of accountability, tracking and standards. Basically, they failed to meet the expectations of a Kickstarter, so why should I trust them to succeed when the expectations and transparency are suddenly removed?
To me, this would all be akin to not preparing for a professional meeting with a publisher, not showing them you've done any work or are at all serious about a project, hoping to just get the backing of a publisher based on a few ideas and names... and then when the publisher opts not to fund the project, and with good business sense behind the decision, going up to individuals from the meeting and in the parking lot asking them for a private donation.
Yeah, you're right, that scenario wouldn't happen in the professional world without the company pitching their game looking like unprofessional scam artists. But, it's happening here, basically, and why? Because Virtual Realms doesn't respect us, the the people willing to give them money directly out of our pockets.
If they respected us, they'd have gone to KS with more than a bunch of ideas and a few names in the industry thinking it would be easy, because what, we're ignorant suckers who have no expectations?
If they respected us, they would have put more effort into explaining more clearly exactly what they were planning to do with our money (because people are STILL confused).
If they respected us, they wouldn't have taken time off in the middle of asking us for money to not focus on living up to our donations or earning more, but planning for the project we were still supporting to fail (if the KS looks like it's going to fail, man up, own it, cancel it, apologize and try again or try something else, don't just abandon it and make everyone look like idiots for continuing to support it!).
And if they respect us, and themselves as professionals, their great plan wouldn't be to simply keep accepting our money with even less accountability on a private site, when we've already tried to give them money through a public, respectable means like Kickstarter, and they couldn't live up to even those standards and expectations.
I guess if people want to donate anyhow, I don't really care, it's your money. I just wanted to explain why I'm not donating, and very dubious of this project's legitimacy at this point even if it does managed to fund in the last days. At this point, I've lost most of my respect for this team and this project, and having a game to play isn't worth being treated like this and supporting this lack of respect and professionalism. It's about more just a few bucks, it's about an industry that has comprised itself from a game-design standpoint, now compromising itself from a professionalism standpoint in the hopes of getting the game-design right.
And the only way they'll succeed, now, is under the expectation that we don't have any expectations, under the notion that we don't have enough self-respect to see they're being disrespectful, with the thought they can be as unprofessional as they need to be because we aren't refined or intelligent enough to know the difference.
I'd rather hold out hope a company with more respect for not only it's potential players and people donating to the project, but for themselves as professionals, will come along and do this right. And I'm okay if that game never domes. I'd rather never get to play the sort of game Pantheon could have been, than to play it because of the unprofessional, disrespectful debacle that this has become.
But seriously, amirite, Ut! Damn him for being right again!
I've very disheartened at the way the Pantheon Kickstarter was started, but even more so with how they're finishing it. It seems to me they've given up. They were basically absent for a week, and when they come back it's clear they weren't working on something to get the KS finished strong, but working on setting up Plan B once the KS failed It's clear they've given up on the KS, so why shouldn't I?
And, instead of just admitting they screwed up the KS are would try again or actually do work on their own, their answer is for us to give them money directly on a private website? No thank you. Not a chance.
They failed on a fairly public, tried and true, method like Kickstarter that others in very similar positions have used to great success, and Kickstarter has at least some level of accountability, tracking and standards. Basically, they failed to meet the expectations of a Kickstarter, so why should I trust them to succeed when the expectations and transparency are suddenly removed?
To me, this would all be akin to not preparing for a professional meeting with a publisher, not showing them you've done any work or are at all serious about a project, hoping to just get the backing of a publisher based on a few ideas and names... and then when the publisher opts not to fund the project, and with good business sense behind the decision, going up to individuals from the meeting and in the parking lot asking them for a private donation.
Yeah, you're right, that scenario wouldn't happen in the professional world without the company pitching their game looking like unprofessional scam artists. But, it's happening here, basically, and why? Because Virtual Realms doesn't respect us, the the people willing to give them money directly out of our pockets.
If they respected us, they'd have gone to KS with more than a bunch of ideas and a few names in the industry thinking it would be easy, because what, we're ignorant suckers who have no expectations?
If they respected us, they would have put more effort into explaining more clearly exactly what they were planning to do with our money (because people are STILL confused).
If they respected us, they wouldn't have taken time off in the middle of asking us for money to not focus on living up to our donations or earning more, but planning for the project we were still supporting to fail (if the KS looks like it's going to fail, man up, own it, cancel it, apologize and try again or try something else, don't just abandon it and make everyone look like idiots for continuing to support it!).
And if they respect us, and themselves as professionals, their great plan wouldn't be to simply keep accepting our money with even less accountability on a private site, when we've already tried to give them money through a public, respectable means like Kickstarter, and they couldn't live up to even those standards and expectations.
I guess if people want to donate anyhow, I don't really care, it's your money. I just wanted to explain why I'm not donating, and very dubious of this project's legitimacy at this point even if it does managed to fund in the last days. At this point, I've lost most of my respect for this team and this project, and having a game to play isn't worth being treated like this and supporting this lack of respect and professionalism. It's about more just a few bucks, it's about an industry that has comprised itself from a game-design standpoint, now compromising itself from a professionalism standpoint in the hopes of getting the game-design right.
And the only way they'll succeed, now, is under the expectation that we don't have any expectations, under the notion that we don't have enough self-respect to see they're being disrespectful, with the thought they can be as unprofessional as they need to be because we aren't refined or intelligent enough to know the difference.
I'd rather hold out hope a company with more respect for not only it's potential players and people donating to the project, but for themselves as professionals, will come along and do this right. And I'm okay if that game never domes. I'd rather never get to play the sort of game Pantheon could have been, than to play it because of the unprofessional, disrespectful debacle that this has become.
But seriously, amirite, Ut! Damn him for being right again!
Kaines
Potato Supreme
- 18,385
- 51,724
You're a moron. UO was my first MMO. Played EQ for years after that (Kunark - PoP). The MMO market HAS evovled beyond the elitest grief fest that you seem to enjoy. You're a pimply faced buffoon who can only get off with a hammer and nail in your ass. There is a reason the MMO market left you behind.