Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
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Boozecube_sl said:
You are wasting your time at this point. Those who are drunk on the Pantheon Kool Aid aren't able to be reasoned with. Might as well just nod and smile at them and move right on past that shit.
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You guys have it all figured out, Pantheon will fail no matter what funding route they take... you guys are rushing to judgement ... its too early to tell what will happen with Pantheon from a funding perspective.
 
D

Dahkoht_sl

shitlord
1,658
0
Jimbolini_sl said:
That technique is actually workableif it is handled correctly. Hopefully they are getting some good advice on that way to fund raise.
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Going by past and current history of their handling of anything business related , I'll give you my betting line on this being handled correctly........
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
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Kaines_sl said:
Wrong again. Played a raid cleric. (i.e. stared at the floor and pressed my CH key during rotation). Saw everything from Trakanon and VP to PoTime. Saw the training, ks'ing, flaming, /ooc spamming, zone crashing, shit-fest that you seem to think is "hardcore". You're still an adolescent shit stain on your favorite ergonomic computer chair. Get the Cheetos out of your neckbeard and realise you are a fucking loser.
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Let me break it down for you simply...

WHAT GAME SINCE 2007 launched with the MAJORITY of its content GROUP based.
 
mkopec

mkopec

<Gold Donor>
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Yeah, true. Not gonna deny that. But I do buy some of them and play them as well. Its kinda depressing really, because weve been playing the same game for the last 10 yrs.
 
Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
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shabushabu_sl said:
Let me break it down for you simply...

WHAT GAME SINCE 2007 launched with the MAJORITY of its content GROUP based.
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Going to bite here. It depends on how you view content. TOR had lots and lots and lots of single player stuff. Absolutely no question about that. But the -vast- majority of actual content was the group-required dungeons and operations (raids) comparatively, as well as all the group-suggested quests (which were quite a bit in each area).

Now, I'm not defending the stupidity that is rampant in current games in regards to content generation. Most tend to err on the side of solo and then group, especially since 2004. But this is the actual crux of most arguments about most games since EQ: EQ -required- you to group to do anything. Every other game -suggests- that you group to do some things. Lots of shit is impossible/requires bugs to solo in many post-eq games, but literally all of the games require you to group to get any real sort of meaningful advancement. Which of course invites discourse on the concept of the word "meaningful."

I'll jump ahead a bit and answer that right now. Meaningful, in regards to mmorpgs and the concept of progression/character advancement, means something that isn't going to be replaced the next time you level up. Or the next time you complete a quest. Or the next time you run an instance. Or the next time you run a dungeon. That is a meaningful reward. There are -shitloads- of examples of this in current games. (WoW had an asston in Vanilla and TBC. Some shit was worth doing because you wouldn't replace it soon)

The point being, that while EQ -required- grouping to get borderline anything done, almost all games since suggest you group and then require grouping to get meaningful advancement. It is a subtle but important difference. Getting -any- XP in EQ required you grouped for most classes for most of the game. Getting mediocre/shitty xp in modern games does not.
 
Caeden

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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In Merlin's defense, I've never seen his name in the wow thread at least here. Dumar pops in from time to time with a couple others.
 
Caeden

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
7,567
12,475
Wow's best example in tbc was Dragonspine trophy from Gruul. Fucker was mythical for tons of classes.
 
BoozeCube

BoozeCube

The Wokest
<Prior Amod>
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299,156
shabushabu_sl said:
You guys have it all figured out, Pantheon will fail no matter what funding route they take... you guys are rushing to judgement ... its too early to tell what will happen with Pantheon from a funding perspective.
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And this sums up the biggest fear people should now have of Pantheon going forward. It isn't the massive failure of a kickstarter's, or them not having a plan, or even that Brad is trying to sneak into the back door of being CEO again. No the part that is most concerning going forward is that Visionary Realms, Inc. is going to be hiding in their little hobbit hole of a website with only the most blinded of fanboys like shabadu here, posting in a giant circle jerk with the devs about how great there idea's are.

Only using the $15.00 a month chumps as their focus group to bounce ideas off of might very well lead to some terrible design choices, again once they get to the point where design choices are relevant and not just ideas. Someone like shabau here, is going to beg and plead for as poopsocky, tedious as they can imagine.
 
M

Merlin_sl

shitlord
2,329
1
Boozecube_sl said:
And this sums up the biggest fear people should now have of Pantheon going forward. It isn't the massive failure of a kickstarter's, or them not having a plan, or even that Brad is trying to sneak into the back door of being CEO again. No the part that is most concerning going forward is that Visionary Realms, Inc. is going to be hiding in their little hobbit hole of a website with only the most blinded of fanboys like shabadu here, posting in a giant circle jerk with the devs about how great there idea's are.

Only using the $15.00 a month chumps as their focus group to bounce ideas off of might very well lead to some terrible design choices, again once they get to the point where design choices are relevant and not just ideas. Someone like shabau here, is going to beg and plead for as poopsocky, tedious as they can imagine.
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Vanguard was the natural progression from EQ so I don't see an issue here. Brad is a lot of things but hes very very good at understanding everything relating to content, art, graphics, etc...Vanguard was done very well in those terms. And I've never seen shab say anything that was out of the ordinary. I agree with most of his posts so I think Brad can take advice without it over-influencing the design decisions.
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
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Rezz;584094 said:
Going to bite here. It depends on how you view content. TOR had lots and lots and lots of single player stuff. Absolutely no question about that. But the -vast- majority of actual content was the group-required dungeons and operations (raids) comparatively, as well as all the group-suggested quests (which were quite a bit in each area).

/QUOTE]

Perhaps i should have clarified not only END game content. TOR was not primarily group based content ( pvp does not count ) at least through alderaan/tatooine which is where i got bored... Spent most of my time alone other than the 30 minitue McDungeons they had along the way ( the one on the space station for both sides was cool however, nice hook )
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BoozeCube

BoozeCube

The Wokest
<Prior Amod>
51,087
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Merlin_sl said:
Vanguard was the natural progression from EQ so I don't see an issue here. Brad is a lot of things but hes very very good at understanding everything relating to content, art, graphics, etc...Vanguard was done very well in those terms. And I've never seen shab say anything that was out of the ordinary. I agree with most of his posts so I think Brad can take advice without it over-influencing the design decisions.
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My apologizes, I meant people like Shabaduand Merlin, don't want anyone getting butt hurt I didn't include them in the $15.00 a month chump category.
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
Boozecube_sl said:
And this sums up the biggest fear people should now have of Pantheon going forward. It isn't the massive failure of a kickstarter's, or them not having a plan, or even that Brad is trying to sneak into the back door of being CEO again. No the part that is most concerning going forward is that Visionary Realms, Inc. is going to be hiding in their little hobbit hole of a website with only the most blinded of fanboys like shabadu here, posting in a giant circle jerk with the devs about how great there idea's are.

Only using the $15.00 a month chumps as their focus group to bounce ideas off of might very well lead to some terrible design choices, again once they get to the point where design choices are relevant and not just ideas. Someone like shabau here, is going to beg and plead for as poopsocky, tedious as they can imagine.
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I dont care about grinds i care about group based content as the basis for the game, not the exception and classes and abilities to support that gameplay. If you actually cared what i thought, there it is..

So what are you saying is, you want solo to cap MCMMO #1000 and because wildstar and TESO are going to suck ass because you still have not figured out that no grouping is the problem you decide to come shit over here...
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
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185
Boozecube_sl said:
My apologizes, I meant people like Shabaduand Merlin, don't want anyone getting butt hurt I didn't include them in the $15.00 a month chump category.
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Payments for forums is not uncommon, what is different other than paying some person like the owner of this site who is just out for profit / numbers and advertising, you are paying to keep out the rif-raf and be part of game development... I would pay there, sooner than i would pay for FOH or countless other fansites which are marketing shill sites..

But spin how you like. I would simply be quite a bit happier to get to know people there, than other public forums full of trolls, projectionists, shills or plain sheeple.
 
Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
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shabushabu;584165 said:
Rezz_sl said:
Going to bite here. It depends on how you view content. TOR had lots and lots and lots of single player stuff. Absolutely no question about that. But the -vast- majority of actual content was the group-required dungeons and operations (raids) comparatively, as well as all the group-suggested quests (which were quite a bit in each area).

/QUOTE]

Perhaps i should have clarified not only END game content. TOR was not primarily group based content ( pvp does not count ) at least through alderaan/tatooine which is where i got bored... Spent most of my time alone other than the 30 minitue McDungeons they had along the way ( the one on the space station for both sides was cool however, nice hook )
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What I was getting at in my rather long-winded post, is that most games actually do have a focus on group content. The thing is that it isn't -all- group content, which appears to be many folks' gripe here. Instead of being forced to group, it is strongly suggested that you group (for literally everything) in the game. There are still the shitty holdouts that have single spawn items that are needed by everyone in the group, just as there were in EQ. But the fastest and best way to progress in every game is always grouping up. Especially doing dungeons and group-specific content.

I get what you are saying, in that "which game has come out that caters specifically to the grouping required crowd" is your actual question. The issue being, that in every game ever, there simply aren't a 1-4 ratio (or whatever your group size is) of healers/tanks to everyone else, so that if everyone in your game logs on at once, there are a lot of people who simply cannot complete content in those types of games due to class disparity. Which is why every game since has gone the route of having solo content available in tandem with group content.

It doesn't have to be a binary situation of group content or not. And in every game since EQ, it isn't.
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Vandyn

Vandyn

Blackwing Lair Raider
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shabushabu_sl said:
Let me break it down for you simply...

WHAT GAME SINCE 2007 launched with the MAJORITY of its content GROUP based.
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Why do you talk like you couldn't solo in EQ ? Or if 2boxing wasn't a thing back then? I also got news for you , people are going to race to content no matter how hard it is.
 
Rezz

Rezz

Mr. Poopybutthole
4,486
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That's actually the other half of the problem. In EQ, you had classes that could solo effectively (not solo period) and classes that could not. Does that make all content capable of being soloed by necros/mages/shaman/SKs solo content or group content?
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,408
185
Rezz;584183 said:
shabushabu_sl said:
What I was getting at in my rather long-winded post, is that most games actually do have a focus on group content. The thing is that it isn't -all- group content, which appears to be many folks' gripe here. Instead of being forced to group, it is strongly suggested that you group (for literally everything) in the game. There are still the shitty holdouts that have single spawn items that are needed by everyone in the group, just as there were in EQ. But the fastest and best way to progress in every game is always grouping up. Especially doing dungeons and group-specific content.

I get what you are saying, in that "which game has come out that caters specifically to the grouping required crowd" is your actual question. The issue being, that in every game ever, there simply aren't a 1-4 ratio (or whatever your group size is) of healers/tanks to everyone else, so that if everyone in your game logs on at once, there are a lot of people who simply cannot complete content in those types of games due to class disparity. Which is why every game since has gone the route of having solo content available in tandem with group content.

It doesn't have to be a binary situation of group content or not. And in every game since EQ, it isn't.
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I don't think it has to be forced grouping per se, but something where finding a group is the FIRST thing i want to do when i login, EVERY TIme and if i can't find one then perhaps there are other activities... but not the other way around i.e. Solo to the 5 or so dungeon experiences that are linear and 30 min MC dungeons while you level... that is what took socialization out of MMO combat
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L

Lost Ranger_sl

shitlord
1,027
4
shabushabu_sl said:
Payments for forums is not uncommon, what is different other than paying some person like the owner of this site who is just out for profit / numbers and advertising, you are paying to keep out the rif-raf and be part of game development... I would pay there, sooner than i would pay for FOH or countless other fansites which are marketing shill sites..

But spin how you like. I would simply be quite a bit happier to get to know people there, than other public forums full of trolls, projectionists, shills or plain sheeple.
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What you call rif-raf, and trolls is really just people who don't share your opinions. The amount of trolling that has happened in this thread is significantly less then what you and others claim. Someone comes along and tries to explain to you that your personal opinion is not some undeniable law of the fucking universe and you label him a troll, or too stupid to "get it". It really isn't surprising that people get fed up with that nonsense and just start to shit on you and your interests.
 
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