Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Genjiro

Genjiro

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You are missing the fact that vanilla EQ was the first of its kind, so there werent even a lot of options for most classes as far as weapons and armor. So stop hindsighting this beyond 20/20....its now 18 years ahead of when devs knew little about scaling, expansions etc because it was being done for the first time in Kunark, in a game those devs were winging it since it was breaking new ground at the time. The gear in later expansions was just fine to wear into new ones if you didnt suck or play with people who sucked.

They made epics etc relevant a long fucking time after they introduced those, so they obviously got better at it and understood more about scaling etc as the game went on. Im still not sure why you think gear should be as relevant further on into an expansion. For the first few levels, sure, but there always needs to be a carrot to gear up to go into new places. If you did have all the best weapons and armor from vanilla then you should have been able to make that last for quite awhile. I was still rocking fear armor etc well into doing places like Sebilis and doing fine, as was the rest of my entire guild. We didnt really give a shit about gear and powerleveled through those levels with the garbage from vanilla since we kind of understood those new loot drops werent gamebreaking nor were they the goal (which was class armor etc from the dungeons to do raids like Trak etc). My monk wore my CoF and RBB well until Velious btw, and I still had some nice goodies I kept forever from vanilla raids (the 100% weight reduction bags from Nag/Vox along with my guise of the deceiver)
 
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TJT

TJT

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Genjiro said:
You are missing the fact that vanilla EQ was the first of its kind, so there werent even a lot of options for most classes as far as weapons and armor. So stop hindsighting this beyond 20/20....its now 18 years ahead of when devs knew little about scaling, expansions etc because it was being done for the first time in Kunark, in a game those devs were winging it since it was breaking new ground at the time. The gear in later expansions was just fine to wear into new ones if you didnt suck or play with people who sucked.

They made epics etc relevant a long fucking time after they introduced those, so they obviously got better at it and understood more about scaling etc as the game went on. Im still not sure why you think gear should be as relevant further on into an expansion. For the first few levels, sure, but there always needs to be a carrot to gear up to go into new places. If you did have all the best weapons and armor from vanilla then you should have been able to make that last for quite awhile. I was still rocking fear armor etc well into doing places like Sebilis and doing fine, as was the rest of my entire guild. We didnt really give a shit about gear and powerleveled through those levels with the garbage from vanilla since we kind of understood those new loot drops werent gamebreaking nor were they the goal (which was class armor etc from the dungeons to do raids like Trak etc). My monk wore my CoF and RBB well until Velious btw, and I still had some nice goodies I kept forever from vanilla raids (the 100% weight reduction bags from Nag/Vox along with my guise of the deceiver)
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I think it was more about it being immersion breaking and dumb that you know, beyond doubt, that every single item you get is being dumped for something else. It leads to no attachment to 99% of the items you get. As it is just part of the gear treadmill. Which everything is. But obscuring that from the player is important.

I don't remember any fucking item I got in WoW that I actually gave a shit about. Other than the ones that had cool ass quests associated with them. Anatheme, for example and The Obsidian Edge and a few other iconic items. After that the gear treadmill became more efficient, streamlined and... lifeless.

Yet, here I am 20 years later and I can remember tons of crap from Everquest. Just like everyone else here who mentions the items by fucking name right now.
 
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Louis

Louis

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TJT said:
Yet, here I am 20 years later and I can remember tons of crap from Everquest. Just like everyone else here who mentions the items by fucking name right now.
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I know there are others like me on here, but I remember nearly every item in EQ from Vanilla to PoP. Maybe not exact stats, but definitely name, look, and zone and npc that dropped it. I never played WoW all that much, but I had the same issue with EQ2. The only items I really remembered were the heritage quest (eq1 items lol) items.
 
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Q

qwertyqweqwertwqert

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Genjiro said:
its now 18 years ahead of when devs knew little about scaling, expansions etc because it was being done for the first time in Kunark
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I am sure they learned a lot, but it is still worth saying what was weak about EQ. You guys turned from troll dickheads into blind fanboy dickheads overnight.

Genjiro said:
They made epics etc relevant a long fucking time after they introduced those, so they obviously got better at it
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They didn't really, they just made epics op for their era. That isn't doing this properly.

Genjiro said:
Im still not sure why you think gear should be as relevant further on into an expansion.
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Because if items are so disposable, then there is no point wanting them. People spent weeks camping stuff like the fbss because it seemed important, and a LOT longer on raid gear. If you replace that on day 1 of a new expansion, it makes the whole thing pointless. And gear was the big motivator for people. That's all EQ was about, nobody cared for anything more than levels and gear.

Genjiro said:
there always needs to be a carrot to gear up to go into new places.
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The problem in EQ was that they gave too much with each expansion, and killed everything that went before it. That's why you have servers like p99 with more players than real EQ servers... People like the old world, having fun in dungeons they love like Lower Guk, Sebilis, Chardok, etc. If SOE/Verant did expansion properly, they never would have made those dungeons abandoned in the first place. You can make an expansion that people want without just double the stats on every item.

Genjiro said:
If you did have all the best weapons and armor from vanilla then you should have been able to make that last for quite awhile. I was still rocking fear armor etc well into doing places like Sebilis and doing fine, as was the rest of my entire guild.
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It could last but I replaced most of it in a week with no effort which made the whole process of ball busting full weekends of raiding seem like a total waste of time. And I never did that again. I ended up doing lots of raiding in EQ and getting an epic on several different classes, but I did it all a lot later and in my own way. I ditched the raid scene once I saw how pointless it was.

All they needed to do was try to preserve the value of older content. But they did the opposite of that.

Genjiro said:
We didnt really give a shit about gear and powerleveled through those levels with the garbage from vanilla since we kind of understood those new loot drops werent gamebreaking nor were they the goal (which was class armor etc from the dungeons to do raids like Trak etc). My monk wore my CoF and RBB well until Velious btw, and I still had some nice goodies I kept forever from vanilla raids (the 100% weight reduction bags from Nag/Vox along with my guise of the deceiver)
Click to expand...
You didn't care about gear and power leveled, yeah, great game design...
 
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Q

qwertyqweqwertwqert

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daly said:
I know there are others like me on here, but I remember nearly every item in EQ from Vanilla to PoP. Maybe not exact stats, but definitely name, look, and zone and npc that dropped it. I never played WoW all that much, but I had the same issue with EQ2. The only items I really remembered were the heritage quest (eq1 items lol) items.
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This only happened because gear mattered early on. Why did you quit at PoP?
 
Zog

Zog

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daly said:
I was a senior in highschool and decided that I'd rather chase pussy than virtual warrior swords.
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fat-nerd-im-here-to-slay-dragons-and-slay-pussy-and-all-the-dragons-have-been-vanquished.jpg
 
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Nirgon

Nirgon

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You could raid both classic, kunark and entry Velious with vanilla planar just fine. You could grind AA just fine through PoP with it too.

I'm WoW... I don't think I saw gear from previous expacs hold up this well ever.
 
B

bigmark268

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I wish wed get mmos that had expansions that didn't incrimentally increase gear. I'd much prefer story oriented side content with gear of the same item level. Just give me another place with different scenery that let's me have more options for aquiring gear.
 
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kudos

kudos

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qwertyqweqwertwqert said:
Because if items are so disposable, then there is no point wanting them. People spent weeks camping stuff like the fbss because it seemed important, and a LOT longer on raid gear. If you replace that on day 1 of a new expansion, it makes the whole thing pointless.
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You were not getting gear better than FBSS in the first week of Kunark.
 
Fight

Fight

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This whole discussion is about the most revisionist history load of bullshit I have seen here in awhile. Qwerty strikes again...
 
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tad10

tad10

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Vinjin said:
one benefit it does offer is allowing new or returning players the chance to jump right in and start playing with other people. With the EQ model, that same player is forced to start from scratch or back at where they previously left off, which may or may not be relevant or populated any more. That's not good.
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This is the justification Blizzard gives for its gear resets. The solution is not gear resets but adding something like EQ Mercs (but level capped so they can't be used for current content) in a later expansions. Players can use Mercs to "solo" to the current content and then start playing with their buddies.
 
Nirgon

Nirgon

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I never killed 5 fire beetles and got something that replaced my vanilla planar

Even at 60 my vanilla planar was best in slot in a few areas

Not to mention plane of fear/hate still provided a reasonable challenge and every mob didn't die in 2 hits
 
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TJT

TJT

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Nirgon said:
I never killed 5 fire beetles and got something that replaced my vanilla planar

Even at 60 my vanilla planar was best in slot in a few areas

Not to mention plane of fear/hate still provided a reasonable challenge and every mob didn't die in 2 hits
Click to expand...

The main argument here is that new content shouldn't shitcan all previous content. This is a good design philosophy.
 
Nirgon

Nirgon

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Well especially when it's thru extremely elementary quests or mobs.

And on that note why not add a lvl 50 wandering raid mob to the starting zone that terrorizes everyone and drops gear comparable to the previous expansion raid content, maybe slightly better or for a slot that previously didn't have an OMG powerful item.
 
Q

qwertyqweqwertwqert

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Genjiro said:
Nobody will ever make a game you will be happy with.
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I am happy with lots of games. I was also happy with EQ but it could have been better. Same goes for Vanguard. I am one of the only people here who had fun with Vanguard. You need to try harder to not be such a dimwit.

kudos said:
You were not getting gear better than FBSS in the first week of Kunark.
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RBG dropped off trash mobs in Seb....

Fight said:
This whole discussion is about the most revisionist history load of bullshit I have seen here in awhile. Qwerty strikes again...
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What is revisionist exactly?

Nirgon said:
I never killed 5 fire beetles and got something that replaced my vanilla planar
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Nobody said you could. But you could kill trash in Seb and get an RBG, and trash in Karnor and get all kinds of upgrades, even from planar gear. Same goes for lots of places.

Nirgon said:
Even at 60 my vanilla planar was best in slot in a few areas
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BS

TJT said:
The main argument here is that new content shouldn't shitcan all previous content. This is a good design philosophy.
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1 person gets it. Out of like 500 replies. GG FoH.
 
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Utnayan

Utnayan

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qwertyqweqwertwqert said:
RBG dropped off trash mobs in Seb....
Click to expand...

And to Kudos's point, you weren't killing trash mobs in Seb within the first week of Kunark's launch. And Seb was also gated with a key quest which was purposely bugged for the first month because itemization wasn't finished - Forager's spawn table was broken. This was also before some of the loot table was transferred to VP.
 
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Fight

Fight

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qwertyqweqwertwqert said:
1 person gets it. Out of like 500 replies. GG FoH.
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Oh no you don't...

We get it. It is just that not all of us go about trying to make our point by telling lies and using ludicrous examples.

Even when you are right, you are wrong. You god damn moron.
 
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Utnayan

Utnayan

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TJT said:
I think it was more about it being immersion breaking and dumb that you know, beyond doubt, that every single item you get is being dumped for something else. It leads to no attachment to 99% of the items you get. As it is just part of the gear treadmill. Which everything is. But obscuring that from the player is important.

I don't remember any fucking item I got in WoW that I actually gave a shit about. Other than the ones that had cool ass quests associated with them. Anatheme, for example and The Obsidian Edge and a few other iconic items. After that the gear treadmill became more efficient, streamlined and... lifeless.

Yet, here I am 20 years later and I can remember tons of crap from Everquest. Just like everyone else here who mentions the items by fucking name right now.
Click to expand...

So this. I can remember when I got my first Mino axe. Ykesha, Dwarven Work Boots, FBSS, CoF, Primal, Robe of the Magi, Robe of the Oracle... and can remember exact spawn locations and camps. Amazing. It's been damn near 20 years since that game launched and I remember all of those.

I do not remember one item from WoW :( I do remember a couple great zones though/story quest areas. But nothing like I did with EQ.
 
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