Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Utnayan_sl said:

Ha. No. My donation will come in the form of a purchaseif they earn it.

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delirium_sl said:

So why would SOE want yet another Fantasy based MMO when they have EQ, VG, and quite a few others AND are working on yet another with EQN?

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Hatorade_sl said:

It will look exactly the same as it does now but with more failures under our belt.

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Jorval_sl said:

This. So much this.



Pretty simple. They could have EQNext tailor-made for the new generation of gamers, Pantheon for the old schools, and finally pull the plug on EQ, EQII and VG when they are no longer profitable.

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Jait_sl said:

So lets say it gets 1.2m. That's a longshot, but lets give them the benefit.

That's 33k a month to cover the next 3 years (not going to bother with present/future value). Is anyone else doing the math? Rent/furniture/equipment/machines/licenses/etc..etc.. Are they doing this in Brad's garage and using his house for this little cult? You have to have major backing, this isn't something you can pay 12 people 800$ a month to do (which you will have to), and expect them to design a game on whatever hardware they can scrape up. You need sponsors, partnerships, etc...etc... And as an owner of a business in California, we are the LEAST friendly state towards business.

I'm just looking for how they expect this money to be allocated over the course of 3 years. And Smed is not likely to come in and White Knight this game after he took a bath on Vanguard. And that had 50x the budget of this game...

edit: I know it *seems* like I'm being a douchebag, but I'm truly feeling like the only guy in the room that didn't drink the kool-aid and is looking around at dreamy-eyed people living in 1999. There are a TON of simple questions that aren't being answered except in "concept". In the real world we have budgets, and spreadsheets up the ass to explain our operating costs and ability to achieve our goals. Not seeing any of that, just broad strokes and big wishes. I wish I could open a tri-tip joint on every corner, but there's no market for that. I wish I could go to Mars on just $50,000 but that's impossible. Except in this thread... where you're just a buzzkill for suggesting that's impossible.

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Lithose_sl said:

I think twinking/power leveling was probably the most organic solution to this problem. It had two big benefits, aside from it's simplicity in the world. The first being that it created a great economic market for older items, and second hand items. I know Brad said there will be systems to remove old items from the game through quests and such--but the market for those "less than tier top tier but still good" items should still be robust, which is great in games, because it helps keep less than top tier dungeons alive and valuable.

The second big benefit is a social one. You never really saw how far you've come until you've gone back with your powerful character and helped a friend do something. Self sufficiency in the modern MMO has pretty much eliminated the need for this. But in older games, this was an aspect that was both fun, and yeah, sometimes annoying. I mean, having to "waste" time running into a dungeon to help your friend CR or PL him might suck, but it was also fun going back to place that kicked your ass, and feeling like a super hero for your buddy. That contrast in power, or creating situations that not only show differences in progression but socially reward them (As in, you get praise from another player for helping)--is severely lacking in games where time accessibility has made sure to limit the need, or even effect, for/of outside support. And I say "effect of", because it's gotten to the point where help from another player, in many cases, can be a huge hindrance to the speed at which you level--because the systems are so meticulously designed around just you.

Now, there are problems with this, too. The TLC and required level bullshit was put in just to deal with those problems. For all the fun behind twinking and helping your friends, there was a dark side to it. It absolutely sucked, as a lower level, to go down into a camp and find it taken by one high end douche bag--preventing your experience gains AND getting level appropriate loot. I know most of us said camping those items was cool, and it was, but it was also really disruptive to game play. Whatever design comes up, needs to think of a way toalleviatethe bad effects of that. But itshouldn'tbe removed, which is what instancing and required levels did. Playersshouldbristle against other players, it's part of interacting.

I'd prefer to see it tackled the way Brad mentioned the "path of least resistance should also be best". Offer alternatives to low level camps, that give higher end players more choices to progress but maybe giving up some better progression for a shot at using less people for some safer loot. For example, and outdoor zone with high value but ultra rare drops, whose mobs also give experience? Might make it more appealing to get experience while getting a drop that can be traded for the low end one. Little design choices like that, which give alternatives that are more appealing, rather than punishing people or eliminating the camp mechanic, would, in my opinion, be a better option.

Sorry rambled there--but it can be crazy remembering how many other systems old mechanics, like open dungeons and twinking (No bound equip), touch on. Which is why I like the fact that they've said they are staying focused on a small set of systems. A lot of these older systems were taken out because of just how complex they really are in terms of how many other systems they affect.

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tad10_sl said:

Then you and Ut deserve the crap that's getting made by publishers. EA, SOE and etc are going to market for the largest, widest audience they can, so they have their best chance of a return on their investment. And that means they're going to put out vanilla and chocolate ice cream everytime: not rocky road, not strawberry and certainly not chunky monkey.

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Jait_sl said:

So lets say it gets 1.2m. That's a longshot, but lets give them the benefit.

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Ichu_sl said:

Perhaps certain rooms of humanoid NPCs are not dumb enough to fall for feign death,

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Aradune_sl said:

Could Pantheon be the chunky monkey plz?

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Ichu_sl said:

Speaking of pulling/breaking rooms, there is a lot that can be done for the 90-10 class utility split that Aradune wants in the context of class flavour.

Perhaps certain rooms of humanoid NPCs are not dumb enough to fall for feign death, or certain NPCs of that room are particularly resistant to mez type spells. You could have a Rogue ability that allows them to sneak into the room pre-engagement and "handcuff" one of the NPCs to the table in the room. The mob would then have to free themselves from the trap before they can come after your group. Maybe that room with the unmezzable humanoid NPC has a rogue buddy in the room that will pick the handcuff lock 75% faster and needs to be neutralized with a mez spell in conjunction with the handcuff trap to optimally split the room.

Stuff like this could lead to a varied splitting/pulling dynamic depending on your group composition. One group with classes XYZ could break a dungeon room in one fashion, while another group of XGQ may approach the split in an entirely different way. When you bring this into the context of downtime, a team that works together and talks about how they are going to progress through the dungeon will experience more efficiently than a team that has the run in and smash without a plan mentality. This would also turn downtime, which is essential in an MMO, into a social event.

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Soygen_sl said:

Well to be fair, cartography is not easy!

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tad10_sl said:

Why not? I was going for Pantheon as rocky road, but chunky monkey works just as well.

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Utnayan_sl said:

That doesn't mean I spend money developing it, especially when I'm about 99% sure SOE has this backed.

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