Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Kirun_sl said:

Absolutely, I agree. However, you're also not of the same ilk as the Merlins and Dumars of this thread, who want aliteralcopy of EQ. It's fine to harken back to mechanics that are part of your "roots", but an exact copy of EQ, with updated graphics? That game will be horrible. Because, for the most part, EQ was horrible. Sure, it has a few things worth mentioning and some older mechanics worth exploring. The thing is, taken as whole, once you wipe away the clouded judgement? It just wasn't a very good game. That's the main thrust of my argument.

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I guess I'm not as militant about it? I dunno, I would be more likely to play EQ'02 with modern graphics this summer then I am to buy either TESO or Wildstar.

etchazz_sl said:

that's your opinion. maybe if you stop giving your opinion like it's gospel you wouldn't always come off as such a raging fucking douche bag? if EQ wasn't a very good game, then why did you play it for so long? that's like saying you saw a movie that wasn't very good, but watched it over 300 times. EQ, in my opinion, was the best video game of all time; which is why i played it for over 5 years straight. that's not clouded judgment, that's just how much i enjoyed the game. i'm sorry your time playing everquest was so horrible that you logged over 300 hours before you stopped playing. was someone holding a gun to your head?

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Etchazz does have a point here - this is about a game (well, vaporware now) and people can like the most ridiculous shit in that regard. Pointing out things you perceive as bad and would not play through again does change nothing for the people that still like that shit.

kudos_sl said:

Send this shit to the rickshaw. It's never happening.

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If you do that the whole discussion will take over another thread, what's the point to that? Do you want to hear how bad modern MMOs are in the Wildstar thread? (nevermind that people are already doing that).

Just comming in here to laugh at the idiots crying for an old mechanic mmo. Because once one actually does appear after 10 years of said bitching?You flame it to the ground. Continue hating everyone and continuing bipolar Internet rage.

vazdeline_sl said:

Just comming in here to laugh at the idiots crying for an old mechanic mmo. Because once one actually does appear after 10 years of said bitching.You flame it to the ground. Continue hating everyone and continuing bipolar Internet rage.

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I'm in on the kickstarter at $855 and wont be pulling my pledge but there is no way I'll be giving them so much as a single cent on their private website; especially not through Paypal(seriously, Paypal sucks). If they wanted to come back in a couple of months with a much better organized and presented kickstarter then I would totally be game to pledging to them again but that doesn't seem to be their plan at the moment.

Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen by Visionary Realms, Inc. Kickstarter
Only 400K more, comon you guys, bring mana pots and buffs!

mkopec_sl said:

Still bro, even if it was the only movie to see you would not go back and re-watch it for 5 yrs if it sucked that bad. And besides it wasn't the only one. There was UO, AC and soon to follow there was AO, DAOC...etc... Not to mention the plethora of great single player games at that time.

Sad to say but if you played what you say is a shitty game for years, the jokes on you. Not on us which enjoyed it.

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Yes there were other games around at the time but they weren't a better product than EQ at the time. Once a better product did come on the market (vanilla WoW), EQ players couldn't jump off the boat fast enough.

I do agree with the sentiment that just because one played and enjoyed EQ doesn't mean that same person doesn't play and enjoy anything else that's out there. There are legions of ex-EQ players that will swear to this day that vanilla WoW was the superior MMORPG to EQ in every way, shape or form.

vazdeline_sl said:

Just comming in here to laugh at the idiots crying for an old mechanic mmo. Because once one actually does appear after 10 years of said bitching.You flame it to the ground. Continue hating everyone and continuing bipolar Internet rage.

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A game appeared here? Where? I saw some Unity assets and an incomplete design document. People burned it to the ground specifically because it was NOT a game.

By the way, what do you do in your spare time when you're not "laughing" at people for being rational, maybe go have a laugh at homeless people who say they don't want to live in crack houses? Or have a good chuckle at thirsty people who refuse to drink their own piss?

Vandyn_sl said:

There are legions of ex-EQ players that will swear to this day that vanilla WoW was the superior MMORPG to EQ in every way, shape or form.

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And there are also millions of car buyers who will swear that the Honda Accord is superior to a Dodge Charger, but I know which car I'd rather drive. To each his own.

Merlin_sl said:

And there are also millions of car buyers who will swear that the Honda Accord is superior to a Dodge Charger, but I know which car I'd rather drive. To each his own.

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How can you say that if you haven't played WoW?

The conversation goes back to 'how many are really interested in this type of game' and for those that love EQ and hate everything else, I get the sentiment that if you played EQ then you want a game like Pantheon and I don't think that's true either. That was my point about EQ players in general. In my opinion, I think the majority of everyone who ever played Everquest does not want to play that game again. It does make you wonder how big the pool is for those that do want to.

DickTrickle_sl said:

How can you say that if you haven't played WoW?

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I played Vanilla WoW, and I can honestly say that while vanilla WoW was an amazing game in its own right, it was not the EQ killer it was proclaimed to be.

See here's the deal. EQ and vanilla WoW we're not the same genre. This is a distinction that almost every mmorpg player AND publisher fail to recognize.

EQ was the last true traditional RPG-based MMO. By this I mean that the vast majority of your characters combat effectiveness was based off of stats and earned abilities. The player built the character and the character fought the fights. The easiest way to relate to this is "auto-attack."

WoW brought a new genre to the MMO space; Action-RPG. By all rights, it should have been coined a MMOARPG, but Blizzard wanted to compete with the then king of MMOs, so there was no distinction acknowledged. The main difference here is that the characters combat abilities were based much more on the gamers abilities rather than the characters stats.

There IS a fundamental difference in these two styles of mmorpgs.

I choose the stat based style of EQ over the action based style of WoW. And, that's why I play EQ to this very day.

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

I played Vanilla WoW, and I can honestly say that while vanilla WoW was an amazing game in its own right, it was not the EQ killer it was proclaimed to be.

See here's the deal. EQ and vanilla WoW we're not the same genre. This is a distinction that almost every mmorpg player AND publisher fail to recognize.

EQ was the last true traditional RPG-based MMO. By this I mean that the vast majority of your characters combat effectiveness was based off of stats and earned abilities. The player built the character and the character fought the fights. The easiest way to relate to this is "auto-attack."

WoW brought a new genre to the MMO space; Action-RPG. By all rights, it should have been coined a MMOARPG, but Blizzard wanted to compete with the then king of MMOs, so there was no distinction acknowledged. The main difference here is that the characters combat abilities were based much more on the gamers abilities rather than the characters stats.

There IS a fundamental difference in these two styles of mmorpgs.

I choose the stat based style of EQ over the action based style of WoW. And, that's why I play EQ to this very day.

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That's what I love about EverQuest; it's all about the math! It's also a large part of why I loved to play a warrior so much. This is also an area where I have a bit more concern in regards to Pantheon as Vanguard ended up being more in the "action RPG" category with it's much faster paced combat and abilities system. Keep it slower paced and all about the math and I'll love it.

Me not giving to this KS had nothing to do with whether or not I wanted a new EQ rule based game. It had everything to do with the history of the person trying to start it and the KS that looked very unprofessional which just went along with the trend of the person trying to start it.

The KS was his one shot and he fucked it up. If the KS had looked fantastic and he had had something to show, I would have thrown at least a $50.00 his way.

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

I played Vanilla WoW, and I can honestly say that while vanilla WoW was an amazing game in its own right, it was not the EQ killer it was proclaimed to be.

See here's the deal. EQ and vanilla WoW we're not the same genre. This is a distinction that almost every mmorpg player AND publisher fail to recognize.

EQ was the last true traditional RPG-based MMO. By this I mean that the vast majority of your characters combat effectiveness was based off of stats and earned abilities. The player built the character and the character fought the fights. The easiest way to relate to this is "auto-attack."

WoW brought a new genre to the MMO space; Action-RPG. By all rights, it should have been coined a MMOARPG, but Blizzard wanted to compete with the then king of MMOs, so there was no distinction acknowledged. The main difference here is that the characters combat abilities were based much more on the gamers abilities rather than the characters stats.

There IS a fundamental difference in these two styles of mmorpgs.

I choose the stat based style of EQ over the action based style of WoW. And, that's why I play EQ to this very day.

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I've heard WoW described in a lot of ways but never in the way that you just did. I mean EQ combat was very slow, almost to the point of non-engaging at times depending on the class. So anything faster than that is considered 'action-based' now?

Bilbo, you obviously played WoW and EQ with your head firmly planted in your anus.

EQ = The player built the character and the character fought the fights.

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What in the fucking nine hells of mmo retardation and lamentation were you smoking when you thought typing sounded accurate?

I choose the stat based style of EQ over the action based style of WoW.

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To even mentions stats as a thing for EQ is laughable, every magic using class line would like to have a word with you. What the fuck did I just read? Do you think that if you strip a WoW character of all it's gear bar weapons that you'll still do the same damage? Based on gamers abilities? are you fucking retarded?

vazdeline_sl said:

Just comming in here to laugh at the idiots crying for an old mechanic mmo. Because once one actually does appear after 10 years of said bitching?You flame it to the ground. Continue hating everyone and continuing bipolar Internet rage.

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I am pledged for $250, and I have no intention of removing it. When the kickstarter fails, I intend to go pledge my $250 on their web site, and I will be signing up for the monthly subscription to the elite forums.

I WANT Pantheon, and I believe in Brad's vision. I will pay the $15 a month to be there in the real forums to make sure to keep my voice heard, and monitor their performance. When they falter, I will make sure they know it.

To me, I am investing in a hobbie that I love. $250 buy in and $15 a month is cheap to be able to be a part of the development of what I spend a good portion of my free time enjoying.

Try offering $250 and $15 a month to the publisher of your favorite tv show to get to be behind the scenes during production and giving advise and comments. See if they ever get back to you.

You people just don't get it. You're comparing this to a normal MMO development process, and it is anything but normal. This is so far out of the realm of how things are done that it's down right revolutionary. There's no doubt that Brad and company are making up the rules as they go because this has never been done like this before. We are in on a new mmorpg BEFORE the design has been finalized. This is every mmorpg geeks wet dream. You all go to mmorpg betas and say this should be like that and so and so, but the reality is that in beta there are next to no design decisions left to be made. This where Pantheon is right now IS when the design decisions are made, and you dipshits are so stupid you can't see it.

Heh, it's "revolutionary"? That's precious. Whatever makes you happy, man.

Sabbat_sl said:

Bilbo, you obviously played WoW and EQ with your head firmly planted in your anus.



What in the fucking nine hells of mmo retardation and lamentation were you smoking when you thought typing sounded accurate?



To even mentions stats as a thing for EQ is laughable, every magic using class line would like to have a word with you. What the fuck did I just read? Do you think that if you strip a WoW character of all it's gear bar weapons that you'll still do the same damage? Based on gamers abilities? are you fucking retarded?

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Seeing as you are stupider then dog shit, I'm going to put this in simple terms for you, and then I am done replying to you because you're clearly a waste of forum space with retarded a retarded reply like that.

EQ was stat based meaning gear and AAs mattered. The user simply chose when and what the character executed (including spells dipshit).

WoW was action based BECAUSE the gamer spammed abilities non-stop on combat. The players ability to spam abilities mattered more than the development of the character BECAUSE two max level characters of the same class in WoW played the exact same, and the difference was based on the players ability to spam abilities. Sit an older gamer down to play and a younger gamer to play the same character and you got vastly different results due to the twitch mechanics of WoW.

Now go fuck yourself.

DickTrickle_sl said:

Heh, it's "revolutionary"? That's precious. Whatever makes you happy, man.

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Ok

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

Seeing as you are stupider then dog shit, I'm going to put this in simple terms for you, and then I am done replying to you because you're clearly a waste of forum space with retarded a retarded reply like that.

EQ was stat based meaning gear and AAs mattered. The user simply chose when and what the character executed (including spells dipshit).

WoW was action based BECAUSE the gamer spammed abilities non-stop on combat. The players ability to spam abilities mattered more than the development of the character BECAUSE two max level characters of the same class in WoW played the exact same, and the difference was based on the players ability to spam abilities. Sit an older gamer down to play and a younger gamer to play the same character and you got vastly different results due to the twitch mechanics of WoW.

Now go fuck yourself.

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So another words stat based gear has absolutely no bearing on a how a character plays in WoW.

You're an idiot.