Parent Thread

meStevo · May 23, 2021

My life as a parent right now:

My son, 11: ODD, ADHD, explosive tendencies. Has to be restrained about once a day at the moment as meds seem to do less and less (which continue to be adjusted). Has kicked a hole in one wall and multiple holes in his door. During a tantrum this morning while mom confined him to his room he punched his door until his knuckles were bloody. This month in 2 incidents he bruised his teachers tantruming. Also in the last month as things have gotten worse, he's added cursing at his mother and teachers (but not to me) while throwing a tantrum, calling them 'fucking stupid bitch' over and over. This is in addition to 'Daddy come kill mommy' (or vice versa if I'm disciplining him), 'I wish I was never born' and 'I want to die'. He is always so focused on the next thing that he can't sit and deal with what is in front of him. I've seen him interrupt himself to get another thought out while he was trying to spit out a longer story, it's kind of wild. But this also means when he sits down to eat, he eats a few bites claims he's full and then the rest of the day every 20 minutes says he wants to eat again. I won't get into all the things we've done to mitigate that kind of thing, but it's just an easy example. This isn't sustainable, at 75 lbs he's getting tougher to restrain and we've already had to deal w/ CPS once with him.

My daughter, 7: (normal?) Little spitfire coming into her own, pushing boundaries. Can't really fault her for much of that, we have to remind ourselves kids are going to be kids and not let the adverse behavior of my son spill over into how we handle the other kids. But that's hard sometimes.

My niece, 10: (autistic, FAS): She's great, quiet. Feel bad that the house around her gets so loud. Still can't really bathe herself, but is doing well enough in her special program at school.

My nephew, 12: (ADHD, FAS) Excited for him headed to junior high next year, now if only we could get a handle on his impulse control, can't help himself but to respond to everything within earshot. Concerned his disabilities may catch up to him soon academically where he's not doing too great, just getting buy.

I feel bad at how relieved and quiet the house is when my son as at a group therapy 3 nights a week for 3 hours. Every day is a mentally taxing management of our son. We give each other breaks where we can, but this sucks right now. Hopefully with school being out we can mitigate some of this a bit, but he's not getting spoiled just because he'll throw a fit, his privileges have to be earned. This creates conflict, and conflict drives the tantrums.

My sister and her husband (haven't been together for several years, living with other people, but not competent enough to figure out the whole divorce thing still) are no closer to taking back over custody. They're the kind of people who as a 'manager' at a Dollar Store and a warehouse worker they've both peaked in life.

Shit has been really overwhelming lately, going to start getting some therapy myself.

Volto! · May 23, 2021

meStevo said:
My life as a parent right now...

I feel for you and your family, and wish you all the best. Sounds like an incredibly difficult situation to deal with that I wouldn't wish upon anybody. It is quite sobering how immensely joyous and heartbreaking parenting can be.

meStevo · May 23, 2021

I mean, ultimately we are doing this for them, right? It's overwhelming, but the worst we can do is not take on the challenges every day and fail to give them every reasonable opportunity to be successful. Just a matter of taking it one day at a time, one challenge at a time. The kids may be overwhelmed, but we're not really afforded the luxury to be.

Kinda see that as the difference between my sister and I, who would leave her kids at daycare until hours after they were supposed to be closed and our parents would have to go get them. It's disappointing that they're not on a trajectory or just have enough 'give a fuck' in their brains about being parents to not move heaven and earth to be their parents full time again.

What really gets to my wife with my son being more and more challenging by the week, is did my sister's kids require so much time and attention that we couldn't have gotten ahead of this with our son? I don't think so, and we can't do anything about the past, but it's an easy hole to fall into when you're trying to make sense of any given rough day.

Gavinmad · May 23, 2021

meStevo said:
I mean, ultimately we are doing this for them, right? It's overwhelming, but the worst we can do is not take on the challenges every day and fail to give them every reasonable opportunity to be successful. Just a matter of taking it one day at a time, one challenge at a time. The kids may be overwhelmed, but we're not really afforded the luxury to be.

Kinda see that as the difference between my sister and I, who would leave her kids at daycare until hours after they were supposed to be closed and our parents would have to go get them. It's disappointing that they're not on a trajectory or just have enough 'give a fuck' in their brains about being parents to not move heaven and earth to be their parents full time again.

What really gets to my wife with my son being more and more challenging by the week, is did my sister's kids require so much time and attention that we couldn't have gotten ahead of this with our son? I don't think so, and we can't do anything about the past, but it's an easy hole to fall into when you're trying to make sense of any given rough day.

Sound like your son needs the occasional disciplinary suplex and/or power bomb.

On a more serious note, what ADHD med is he taking?

lurkingdirk · May 23, 2021

Gavinmad said:
On a more serious note, what ADHD med is he taking?

This is a good question. My youngest took a long time to get the right medication and the right dose. He was on one that wore off about 2pm and he crashed and turned into a total jerk. Then we got him on both Focalin to take in the morning, and Stratera that he takes at night. The Stratera is a non-stimulant, and builds into the system so it never wears off. The second drug seemed to absolutely even him out and maintain control for the entire day.

meStevo · May 23, 2021

Gavinmad said:
Sound like your son needs the occasional disciplinary suplex and/or power bomb.

On a more serious note, what ADHD med is he taking?

Adderall, Asenapine, Abilify, Clonidine and recently just started Oxcarbazepine

The two in bold are the ones that have changed over time, we've tried Guafacine, Olanzapine and a couple others.

It's painful to list that stuff, because it's hard to convey the experiences we've had to this point that have led to that list and 'well maybe it's all the drugs' is an easy conclusion to come to outside of that. We're discussing this with his psych basically every 2 weeks for the last year at this point to try and dial things in. In recent weeks it feels more like the dial has fallen off.

To give you an idea of the explosiveness... I surprised the kids with a trip to lunch and to the park for the two of them that have listened all morning and done as we asked. He was genuinely sobbing, you can tell when it's a not-in-tantrum cry, almost like a dam breaking after he's done throwing a fit. He was sitting on the steps in a split-level hallway and suddenly he sobbing stopped and started hitting himself in the head with his own knees and screaming he wants to kill himself.

After starting w/ a new therapist I've gotten better at documenting the episodes and I think that's helped things a little (both in setting the context for therapy and my mental health writing it out).

Gavinmad · May 23, 2021

meStevo said:
Adderall, Asenapine, Abilify, Clonidine and recently just started Oxcarbazepine

The two in bold are the ones that have changed over time, we've tried Guafacine, Olanzapine and a couple others.

It's painful to list that stuff, because it's hard to convey the experiences we've had to this point that have led to that list and 'well maybe it's all the drugs' is an easy conclusion to come to outside of that. We're discussing this with his psych basically every 2 weeks for the last year at this point to try and dial things in. In recent weeks it feels more like the dial has fallen off.

To give you an idea of the explosiveness... I surprised the kids with a trip to lunch and to the park for the two of them that have listened all morning and done as we asked. He was genuinely sobbing, you can tell when it's a not-in-tantrum cry, almost like a dam breaking after he's done throwing a fit. He was sitting on the steps in a split-level hallway and suddenly he sobbing stopped and started hitting himself in the head with his own knees and screaming he wants to kill himself.

After starting w/ a new therapist I've gotten better at documenting the episodes and I think that's helped things a little (both in setting the context for therapy and my mental health writing it out).

If the current med doesn't work I'd ask your doctor about Atomoxetine, which is the Strattera that Dirk mentioned.

meStevo · May 23, 2021

I've got an appointment this week, I'll ask where it falls in his thought process (what drug it might replace, when would we consider it, etc.)

I do what I can to not do the 'the internet said a thing' bit, but I also have a really good doctor that likes to talk about why he is prescribing things and makes sure we understand why we're doing certain combinations.

Gavinmad · May 23, 2021

meStevo said:
I've got an appointment this week, I'll ask where it falls in his thought process (what drug it might replace, when would we consider it, etc.)

I do what I can to not do the 'the internet said a thing' bit, but I also have a really good doctor that likes to talk about why he is prescribing things and makes sure we understand why we're doing certain combinations.

The main selling point of Strattera is that it's not a stimulant like most ADHD meds. It's definitely worth at least asking your doc about.

Ao- · May 24, 2021

Tarrant said:
My oldest son graduates next month and was supposed to move few states over (in with me) and go to college. He gets half off tuition (it’s a major university) and after his mom got into his head he’s deciding to stay in the middle of no where northern United States and hope he can get a “good paying job” at Walmart and take a gap year and decide even if he wants to to get a secondary education.

he’s 18 and I told him he’s an adult and he has to make his own decisions, but that I can’t disagree with that decision anymore than I currently do.

I miss the days where I could tell him what to do. It’s stressful, I don’t want to see him fuck up his life and get a late start bettering himself like I did.

it’s frustrating having to watch and hope it all turns out okay.

If you're still in the Upper Midwest... jobs here are fucking awesome, especially if you go into any type of tech career. I mean shit, my old place used to have a hard time getting interns because of competition. There's a shitload more Fortune500 company offices here than there should be (per capita).

Tarrant · May 24, 2021

Ao- said:
If you're still in the Upper Midwest... jobs here are fucking awesome, especially if you go into any type of tech career. I mean shit, my old place used to have a hard time getting interns because of competition. There's a shitload more Fortune500 company offices here than there should be (per capita).

He lives in a dying mining town in the northern midwest that's pretty isolated.

meStevo · May 26, 2021

Talking to doc today about my son, will bring up Strattera. Here's one of the episodes last night I took notes for:

Trigger: does not want to brush his teeth
Incentive: Get one of his stuffed animals he loves back if he starts in 2 minutes
Outcome:
- Went to bathroom, stood in dark with a toothbrush until someone came to check on him
- Insisted on using someone else's toothbrush (an extra toothbrush that was in a drawyer, may have been a grandparents or something)
- Timer expired, so won't be getting the stuffed animal. Muttering that he won't brush his teeth then.
- Had to be physically taken back into the bathroom and his teeth forcefully brushed
- Had to be restrained in his room until he calmed down
- Yelled threats and curses at his mother, called for his father. Pinching and biting himself.
- Eventually calmed, agreed to go to bed

Since I last posted we've got another hole in a wall, too. Instead of repairing these I almost want to just slowly mount door kickplates around the perimeter of his room...
At group therapy they said they're also seeing levels of hyperactivity they've never seen before in the 5-6 weeks he's been going.

meStevo · May 26, 2021

So he's not had much success with Strattera, but we may press this issue in the near future if we continue to make little progress (I'd say we're losing ground, rather than making any progress).

We're dropping Abilify in favor of Risperdal (which was our miracle drug in the past - the first that made a big breakthrough, but that was years ago) and upping the Clonidine, meeting again in 2 weeks.

This weekend my wife leaves with the girls for a month, so there will be a little less friction around the house hopefully. The challenge will be working from home and keeping him occupied, it's like having a 4 year old again in terms of attention span and level of effort to keep them entertained.

Gavinmad · May 26, 2021

How many different doctors have handled your son's case?

Tmac · May 26, 2021

meStevo said:
My life as a parent right now:

My son, 11: ODD, ADHD, explosive tendencies. Has to be restrained about once a day at the moment as meds seem to do less and less (which continue to be adjusted). Has kicked a hole in one wall and multiple holes in his door. During a tantrum this morning while mom confined him to his room he punched his door until his knuckles were bloody. This month in 2 incidents he bruised his teachers tantruming. Also in the last month as things have gotten worse, he's added cursing at his mother and teachers (but not to me) while throwing a tantrum, calling them 'fucking stupid bitch' over and over. This is in addition to 'Daddy come kill mommy' (or vice versa if I'm disciplining him), 'I wish I was never born' and 'I want to die'. He is always so focused on the next thing that he can't sit and deal with what is in front of him. I've seen him interrupt himself to get another thought out while he was trying to spit out a longer story, it's kind of wild. But this also means when he sits down to eat, he eats a few bites claims he's full and then the rest of the day every 20 minutes says he wants to eat again. I won't get into all the things we've done to mitigate that kind of thing, but it's just an easy example. This isn't sustainable, at 75 lbs he's getting tougher to restrain and we've already had to deal w/ CPS once with him.

My daughter, 7: (normal?) Little spitfire coming into her own, pushing boundaries. Can't really fault her for much of that, we have to remind ourselves kids are going to be kids and not let the adverse behavior of my son spill over into how we handle the other kids. But that's hard sometimes.

My niece, 10: (autistic, FAS): She's great, quiet. Feel bad that the house around her gets so loud. Still can't really bathe herself, but is doing well enough in her special program at school.

My nephew, 12: (ADHD, FAS) Excited for him headed to junior high next year, now if only we could get a handle on his impulse control, can't help himself but to respond to everything within earshot. Concerned his disabilities may catch up to him soon academically where he's not doing too great, just getting buy.

I feel bad at how relieved and quiet the house is when my son as at a group therapy 3 nights a week for 3 hours. Every day is a mentally taxing management of our son. We give each other breaks where we can, but this sucks right now. Hopefully with school being out we can mitigate some of this a bit, but he's not getting spoiled just because he'll throw a fit, his privileges have to be earned. This creates conflict, and conflict drives the tantrums.

My sister and her husband (haven't been together for several years, living with other people, but not competent enough to figure out the whole divorce thing still) are no closer to taking back over custody. They're the kind of people who as a 'manager' at a Dollar Store and a warehouse worker they've both peaked in life.

Shit has been really overwhelming lately, going to start getting some therapy myself.

So, I just want to commend you for obviously being at the end of your rope and really speaking highly of everyone around you, especially your wife. I think it points to the fact that you’re a good husband and dad.

You guys have obviously tried a bunch of stuff. So, I don’t even want to throw random stuff out there, but since you mentioned therapy for yourself...

Have you thought about doing therapy together w your wife? The reason I say this is bc I’m sure your marriage has suffered even more than the two of you individually. And you may not even notice it bc if the huge time investment your son seems to demand. But, I bet you could both greatly benefit from being able to share, support, and grow with one another. Having a professional there to help is simply a bonus at that point.

Just a thought. I really admire your commitment to your kids, wife, and especially your niece and nephew.

lurkingdirk · May 26, 2021

Tmac said:
So, I just want to commend you for obviously being at the end of your rope and really speaking highly of everyone around you, especially your wife. I think it points to the fact that you’re a good husband and dad.

You guys have obviously tried a bunch of stuff. So, I don’t even want to throw random stuff out there, but since you mentioned therapy for yourself...

Have you thought about doing therapy together w your wife? The reason I say this is bc I’m sure your marriage has suffered even more than the two of you individually. And you may not even notice it bc if the huge time investment your son seems to demand. But, I bet you could both greatly benefit from being able to share, support, and grow with one another. Having a professional there to help is simply a bonus at that point.

Just a thought. I really admire your commitment to your kids, wife, and especially your niece and nephew.

This is really good advice. Read it dispassionately and consider it.

moonarchia · May 27, 2021

meStevo said:
So he's not had much success with Strattera, but we may press this issue in the near future if we continue to make little progress (I'd say we're losing ground, rather than making any progress).

We're dropping Abilify in favor of Risperdal (which was our miracle drug in the past - the first that made a big breakthrough, but that was years ago) and upping the Clonidine, meeting again in 2 weeks.

This weekend my wife leaves with the girls for a month, so there will be a little less friction around the house hopefully. The challenge will be working from home and keeping him occupied, it's like having a 4 year old again in terms of attention span and level of effort to keep them entertained.

Just a thought, but your son and nephew are old enough for Boy Scouts or sports, which might help with social skills and having things to focus on.

meStevo · May 27, 2021

Tmac said:
So, I just want to commend you for obviously being at the end of your rope and really speaking highly of everyone around you, especially your wife. I think it points to the fact that you’re a good husband and dad.

You guys have obviously tried a bunch of stuff. So, I don’t even want to throw random stuff out there, but since you mentioned therapy for yourself...

Have you thought about doing therapy together w your wife? The reason I say this is bc I’m sure your marriage has suffered even more than the two of you individually. And you may not even notice it bc if the huge time investment your son seems to demand. But, I bet you could both greatly benefit from being able to share, support, and grow with one another. Having a professional there to help is simply a bonus at that point.

Just a thought. I really admire your commitment to your kids, wife, and especially your niece and nephew.

Thanks. As for couples therapy, absolutely, just a factor of time and being able to make it happen w/ 4 kids. Our sole support in town is largely my mom, and she can't handle the 4 of them anymore. So for starters I want to get in myself (since I have direct control over that) and I know my wife is open to it but is less overtly interested. Our marriage of 13 years is in good shape, but we don't take it for granted and carve out time for ourselves when the opportunities present themselves. Wife about to head to Colorado for a month with the girls, so the dynamic at home will be interesting w/ me and the boys. I plan on starting when she's back and we'll go from there.

Gavinmad said:
How many different doctors have handled your son's case?

This is the second. Long story short our current doctor was our temp doctor when his first doc was on vacation, and then we just stayed with him because he was willing to try more things and bothered to actually explain why we were doing what we were doing. He's since left and started his own practice. We ended up going to a psych after a few years of occupational and a family therapist a couple other evaluations and finally being told that it was time to consider medication.

moonarchia said:
Just a thought, but your son and nephew are old enough for Boy Scouts or sports, which might help with social skills and having things to focus on.

Yeah, going to be heading down this path shortly. One recommendation recently was also Shotokan karate. The pitch from the therapist was it's more focused on discipline rather than fighting and it's not a belt factory. I think this kind of thing could be extremely important for the boys especially if they want to do it together. The social connections are super important, my son is really dependent on my nephew, who doesn't always want to play. This a frequent trigger of his. My son also wants his Xbox time back not because he wants to play games but to join group chats and sing to strangers (which we've curtailed and now Xbox is just for playing games, we'll work back towards more access to strangers where it makes sense as other things improve). But yeah, a desire for social connections and productive objectives are a really big part of it and I think would help tremendously. More recently some of this is dividends if being cooped up for the last year.

Gavinmad · May 27, 2021

meStevo said:
One recommendation recently was also Shotokan karate. The pitch from the therapist was it's more focused on discipline rather than fighting and it's not a belt factory.

There are plenty of Shotokan belt factories. Whether a dojo is a belt factory or not is on the owner/teacher, not what style of martial art they teach.

If you're wanting to avoid wasting your son's time on a belt factory you'll need to do a bit of research on the dojo and sensei.

moonarchia · May 27, 2021

meStevo said:
Yeah, going to be heading down this path shortly. One recommendation recently was also Shotokan karate. The pitch from the therapist was it's more focused on discipline rather than fighting and it's not a belt factory. I think this kind of thing could be extremely important for the boys especially if they want to do it together. The social connections are super important, my son is really dependent on my nephew, who doesn't always want to play. This a frequent trigger of his. My son also wants his Xbox time back not because he wants to play games but to join group chats and sing to strangers (which we've curtailed and now Xbox is just for playing games, we'll work back towards more access to strangers where it makes sense as other things improve). But yeah, a desire for social connections and productive objectives are a really big part of it and I think would help tremendously. More recently some of this is dividends if being cooped up for the last year.

I would hesitate on martial arts until your son has his impulse control issues resolved. Putting holes in walls/doors is not a good thing at that age.

Parent Thread

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