Path of Exile

Deathwing said:

I think we're talking past each other a bit. Let me try to be succinct.

I don't want access to any content to be affected by other players. Access as intended by the developers is fine barring stupid decisions. Depending on trade for rare item availability would be one of those.

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I'm still waiting to see how other players are affecting your access to content. In your legion example, you could always just farm your own splinters and run your own shit. Just because it's "more efficient" to do it with a HH doesn't mean anything. Tons of shit are "more efficient" to do different ways than its done. I mean how is a headhunter preventing you from accessing game content?

OU Ariakas said:

Time. An extra 5-10 hours per day to be exact.

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Ok, this circles back to my everquest argument. If they change SSF so you can accomplish the same amount in 5-10 less hours a day, then how do you reconcile that with the existing SSF pro players? The game will be so fucking easy to them that the gear created will be just retarded.

Maybe GGG can make a system where there's an SSF mode called Carebear Casual where all rare drop rates are 10 times higher than any other league, but your character is forever locked to that league with no migration. Would that solve your problem?

Deathwing said:

And don't say I can farm those 1-passive Voices myself.

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"It's bullshit I can't target farm uniques"

"And don't say I can farm those target farmable uniques"

OU Ariakas said:

They balance their game around players using and acquiring the HH. To deny that is to deny reality.

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Give me an example of something that was balanced by GGG around players using and getting a HH.

Surely you also apply the same standards to inspired learning right? Because the running of 80% deli maps with HH is also doable comfortably with 10ex of items. Just ask Kythik

Deathwing said:

Willful misrepresentation. You can target farm lots of rare, build-enabling items with a more than reasonable play schedule and still come up with nothing for a whole league.

Lighty has been working on his All For One series for almost 2 years. He's one div card away from a Soulripper.

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So we're back to play schedules now? Because this part doesnt have anything to do with HH.

I guess I don't know what you guys want. It sounds like this is boiling down to you want loot to be easier to acquire (in and out of SSF). You say you want things to be target farmable, but now you're complaining things that ARE target farmable take too much time.

Where are we going with this?

OU Ariakas said:

What do you consider 'easy' to acquire? Is 20 hours per upgrade easy? 30? 40?

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I don't consider time to be a determining factor of whether something is easy or hard.

Deathwing said:

I can't tell if you're purposefully being a disingenuous cunt or you're really missing the simple concept we're trying to spell out for you. Do you remember how low exalts got last league for about a week? And then stayed not quite as low but still really low for the rest of the league? That was other players affecting the purchasing power of the exalts that dropped for me. If I wanted to keep up with them, I had to run 17-currency split blueprints. For a good amount of time, items usually listed in exalts were instead hundreds of chaos.

I want bullshit like that to stop affecting my ability to put builds together and progress characters. It might make them cheaper. It might make them more expensive. I don't know! I'm not debating that. I'm not well versed in economy theory to really know anyway. I doubt anyone here is. But I know we all know that serious farmers affect the prices of items. And as long as trade is by far the easiest way to get rare items, I want that effect other players have to be removed. Or at the very least mitigated. Not sure it can be removed without straight up removing trade too.

And just to circle back, this argument has been classically encapsulated as "delete HH" because as unlikely as that is, it's more likely than GGG making SSF viable. Would love to eat my words there!

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I'm not being disengenuous here. I'm being as honest as I can and I can appreciate the debate here.

I mean look, you just gave me an example of bitching because people are affecting the purchasing power of exalts that dropped for you, but you completely ignored the complete inverse in that the purchasing power of chaos was considerably higher. You then rail on people listing things for hundreds of chaos (which is nothing new, btw), but did you yourself also not do so?

I honestly don't know what you want here. Ignoring making SSF viable, and ignoring HH stuff.. since now we're not talking about SSF and HH... You don't want farmers to affect the prices of items. But then something else will fill that void. And you'll want them removed. Part of the reason rares are so easy to get on trade is also because of farmers.

PoE's formula is really fucking simple. The more time spent and the more efficient use of that time, the more money you're going to make. Cutedog was on stream killing maven carries for 7 ancient orbs with each fight taking 2-3 minutes tops. That's about 100 or so ancient orbs an hour, or in the current market, about 2,500 chaos or 25ex.

LiquidDeath said:

I can't imagine why you think that professional PoE players that know the content so well that they are legitimately 3x or more efficient per unit of time than normal players is some slam dunk argument. Their 24 hours of play is 72 hours or more of a normal, experienced, casual player. It is many times more than that for people who have skipped leagues or don't stay on the cutting edge of the informational portion of the game. It is a fucking stupid argument to say that since a pro player can do it that it is fine for everyone and for the health of the game.

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And it's a stupider argument to expect someone whos skipped leagues and don't stay on the cutting edge to be able to put together god tier builds in 2 weeks time playing 2-3 hours in a day.

OU Ariakas said:

Ok, so do you think tripling the chance for harvest and tripling the chance for add/remove, add, or remove crafts to roll would be considered fine or carebear easy?

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I'm pretty indifferent to it. It would likely drive down the price of a lot of harvest crafts, but other than that not really affect anything.

Plus, the way people are farming harvest right now has nothing to do with the rarity of harvest appearing on your map.