Path of Exile

OU Ariakas · Aug 9, 2021

AladainAF said:
This is probably the first time in a long time that reddit is making a lot of reasonable complaints. They have no idea what they are doing with their game. I truly believe that, and that's coming from someone that's given them thousands of dollars over the last decade.

The numbers speak for themselves, a gigantic number of people noped the fuck out of this league. It's retention is probably the worst they've ever had, in the shortest time too.

The question is if it is these specific nerfs/changes along with a lackluster league or were these people on the fence for a few leagues holding onto hope that the game would turn a direction they liked that finally threw on the towel for good? I think next leagues' player numbers and retention will be a bigger sign than this one.

Kiroy · Aug 9, 2021

Deathwing said:
Best part of this league: 2+ weeks into the league and reddit is still in constant bitchfest. Some real schadenfreude to be enjoyed here.

Worst part of this league: there's some real issues with the game(flasks and mana mainly) and I fear that the above will give GGG reason to not treat valid criticism as worthwhile. Chris is going on Baeclast later this(next?) week. This is obviously not something planned, but hard to tell whether it's in response valid criticism or reddit's inability to handle adversity.

flask changes and logbook drop rates is just pants on head fucking retarded

even assuming infinite logbooks, an hour spent running them vs heists, heists are seeming a lot more lucrative still. it's crazy

other than that i'm fine with their efforts trying to slow the game down a bit, but they need to get rid of the bloat - you can't have both w/o making your game a clunky mess

mkopec · Aug 9, 2021

I think while probabaly warranted, these changes should have been done over the course of many leagues leading up to 2.0, rather than all at once like they did. They probably thought just get it over with right now and lick the wounds but people realizing that this game just feels like shit with all these changes all at once. Its like a heroin addict cut off cold turkey instead of weaning them off over time.

Arbitrary · Aug 9, 2021

The flask changes, movement skill changes (I loathe the change to Second Wind) and changes to mana costs/reservations/triggers each make the game play a little bit worse or a lot worse depending on your own particulars. Wanting to reign in character power I understand but in doing so the basic playing of the game took a step backwards. They made their game less smooth.

AladainAF · Aug 9, 2021

OU Ariakas said:
The question is if it is these specific nerfs/changes along with a lackluster league or were these people on the fence for a few leagues holding onto hope that the game would turn a direction they liked that finally threw on the towel for good? I think next leagues' player numbers and retention will be a bigger sign than this one.

The league is pretty good. The problem is the logbooks should be half as rewarding as they are and drop twice as common. Why they don't do this is weird. The mass exodus this league was well before the league mechanic even came into play much. I'm pretty sure its the changes and not the league. Some of these changes are just baffling, like some of the flask nerfs and movement speed issues.

Next league is going to be better, because they are going to unnerf some shit and boost shit. Because, you know, they have no fucking idea what they are doing. It's the same reason why the first patch they did THIS league was to give massive boosts to some of the things they nerfed, because they nerfed it into uselessness. Again, they don't know what they are doing. This is akin to the Diablo 3 Inferno difficulty "We made it as hard as QA could handle it, then doubled it" moment.

They advocate for build diversity, but the game is as such where only three ascendencies really shine for the majority of the player base. Yes, you can make everything work but most players are not going to push for that.

If GGG truly wanted build diversity, every ascendency or build will be able to be boosted into incredible power, and more importantly, you wouldn't gate new builds behind a 8+ hour long campaign+labs+initial gearing+pantheon situation. Trade would be easy. The #1 barrier to build diversity is that no one wants to go through the efforts of new builds, because its gated behind such bullshit you have to do for the billionth time. People like me with countless hours of free time don't even want to do that.

If PoE had good QoL, a great interface, a trade system, and only having to do campaign/labs/pantheon once per league and it unlock for the rest of the characters on that account, I believe you'd find considerably more player retention, and many many more builds. Shit I'd love to make 5-6 builds per league.

Kiroy · Aug 9, 2021

AladainAF said:
If GGG truly wanted build diversity, every ascendency or build will be able to be boosted into incredible power, and more importantly, you wouldn't gate new builds behind a 8+ hour long campaign+labs+initial gearing+pantheon situation. Trade would be easy. The #1 barrier to build diversity is that no one wants to go through the efforts of new builds, because its gated behind such bullshit you have to do for the billionth time. People like me with countless hours of free time don't even want to do that.

This is the situation i'm in now that I don't play as much. Use to do a few builds a league. Now I do one. If I happen to pick one that ends up being not that fun or effective, then i'm flat done with that league, usually within a few days (you know if it's unfun or shitty around the time you get to maps). If I pick one I like, I may stick around for a few weeks.

mkopec · Aug 9, 2021

Kiroy said:
This is the situation i'm in now that I don't play as much. Use to do a few builds a league. Now I do one. If I happen to pick one that ends up being not that fun or effective, then i'm flat done with that league, usually within a few days (you know if it's unfun or shitty around the time you get to maps). If I pick one I like, I may stick around for a few weeks.

I think this goes hand in hand with the problem I have with this game. Its the loot and lack of any good loot. Too much RNG and 99% of are shit. There is no incentive to play for the vast amount of us casuals that maybe see 2-5 good items per league, if that. And crafting is still 100% RNG with too many affixes and tiers of affixes to boot.

Arbitrary · Aug 9, 2021

If logbooks weren't sweet (they're sweet) this whole thing would have been a bust for me. I went with Absolution at the start and really liked the skill but had to bail on it at the start of yellow maps so that was kinda shitty. I really don't feel like leveling up something else either so spectres it is.

Thregin · Aug 9, 2021

I'm pretty happy with how the game plays but thats because i went out of my way to unnerf the flask changes by making myself curse and ailment immune on gear. But if thats a requirement to make a build feel good it's really gonna limit what you can play. And i guess i crafted gloves to play with a 5 link to lessen the effects of the mana cost increase.

Pasteton · Aug 9, 2021

I totally forgot about indigon when trying my mjolner mana bond thing, I can see why that might scale the damage to a worthwhile level. With mana storm alone it wasnt quite there imo.
Mana bond is an odd skill because it starts out so gimp that it’s frustrating to use so I quickly gave up on it. I might have to go back to it once I build up some currency again and see what numbers I come up with

Deathwing · Aug 9, 2021

Thregin said:
I'm pretty happy with how the game plays but thats because i went out of my way to unnerf the flask changes by making myself curse and ailment immune on gear. But if thats a requirement to make a build feel good it's really gonna limit what you can play. And i guess i crafted gloves to play with a 5 link to lessen the effects of the mana cost increase.

Can you react to being unexpectedly frozen in a way that doesn't seriously jeopardize your character? I've seen a lot of builds going out of their way to get ailment immunity because the premise of reacting to freeze is fundamentally flawed. I'll be honest, that's how I handle bleeding and corrupted fever, but I want to say freezing is much more punishing. A lot of builds with decent sustain(and phys reduction!), it's "oh, I'm bleeding, I barely noticed".

IDK, I'm willing to admit these changes need more time for players to adjust. But so far it feels like that "no, we have X at home" meme. Dash and Second Wind might as well not exist. Now I get to relearn why people didn't use Shield Charge, Leap, and Whirling Blades. Moving slower, reacting to ailments and curses, building for mana sustain, can all feel rewarding. Not sure this was it.

AladainAF Reddit definitely has some points, but it has reached an insufferable level at this point. It's at the point where I'm concerned the complaining is going to do more harm than good.

Deathwing · Aug 9, 2021

Pasteton said:
I totally forgot about indigon when trying my mjolner mana bond thing, I can see why that might scale the damage to a worthwhile level. With mana storm alone it wasnt quite there imo.
Mana bond is an odd skill because it starts out so gimp that it’s frustrating to use so I quickly gave up on it. I might have to go back to it once I build up some currency again and see what numbers I come up with

How many stacks of Indigon are you going to maintain, where is that mana going to come from(on a boss fight at that), and how are those stacks not going to prevent your Mjolner trigger skill?

Thregin · Aug 9, 2021

Deathwing said:
Can you react to being unexpectedly frozen in a way that doesn't seriously jeopardize your character? I've seen a lot of builds going out of their way to get ailment immunity because the premise of reacting to freeze is fundamentally flawed. I'll be honest, that's how I handle bleeding and corrupted fever, but I want to say freezing is much more punishing. A lot of builds with decent sustain(and phys reduction!), it's "oh, I'm bleeding, I barely noticed".

IDK, I'm willing to admit these changes need more time for players to adjust. But so far it feels like that "no, we have X at home" meme. Dash and Second Wind might as well not exist. Now I get to relearn why people didn't use Shield Charge, Leap, and Whirling Blades. Moving slower, reacting to ailments and curses, building for mana sustain, can all feel rewarding. Not sure this was it.

AladainAF Reddit definitely has some points, but it has reached an insufferable level at this point. It's at the point where I'm concerned the complaining is going to do more harm than good.

I basically played without flasks so i always had my auto trigger "of heat" flask ready to go. Thats a high price to pay but it's in the spirit of what they're trying to achieve i suppose and it did effectively delete piano flask untill i had it sorted by getting immunity. Still felt bad because chilled wouldn't trigger the flask for example so a chilled grounds map felt a lot like a temp chains one.

Deathwing · Aug 9, 2021

Thregin said:
I basically played without flasks so i always had my auto trigger "of heat" flask ready to go. Thats a high price to pay but it's in the spirit of what they're trying to achieve i suppose and it did effectively delete piano flask untill i had it sorted by getting immunity. Still felt bad because chilled wouldn't trigger the flask for example so a chilled grounds map felt a lot like a temp chains one.

Right, those stupid triggers that only work on flasks they want you to use preemptively. I finally have enough instilling orbs to fuck around with some triggers. That's another system that needs some refinement.

Pasteton · Aug 9, 2021

Deathwing said:
How many stacks of Indigon are you going to maintain, where is that mana going to come from(on a boss fight at that), and how are those stacks not going to prevent your Mjolner trigger skill?

Not sure on stack count. Could use lifetap with a cyclone to solve mana issues for mjolner trigger. EDIT - u have to get cyclone to zero mana cost, as i think lifetap u might end up killing urself.
I personally like doryani's prototype for these mjolner builds. so i think best way to get cyclone to 0 mana is inspiration support if need be , otherwise reduced mana cost of skills on a ring if no other way.
doryanis is awesome but does require a specific talisman, then the lethal pride rakiata if u dont want to be too rippy. if the indigon buff is big enough that u can forego doryanis, then the mana issue from cyclone easily solved with a warlord chest with -15 to mana cost for socketed attacks.
once cyclone is zero mana cost u can trigger mjolner infinitely.

for triggering indigon , this could be done with a combination of different things, perhaps an arcane cloak and then maybe spamming vortex in between to keep mana levels low, not sure yet. i dont see a way to keep 100% indigon buff uptime this way but it should be good enuf for some mega damage, will toy with it in pob and see what happens

AladainAF · Aug 9, 2021

Deathwing said:
AladainAF Reddit definitely has some points, but it has reached an insufferable level at this point. It's at the point where I'm concerned the complaining is going to do more harm than good.

I agree to an extent, but I don't think Reddit would do near the damage to PoE that GGG themselves is doing.

ronne · Aug 9, 2021

I wore a winterheart all the way through my sirus kills and the rest of the endgame I did on the first build. Just macro'd all my flasks as I have for every league otherwise. There's some tiny gaps in uptime here or there on the quicksilver now, but otherwise map density in reds is such that they are just weaker than before but otherwise function exactly the same for me.

Have yet to use any of the new flask currency on anything yet. Maybe next build?

The one big thing that has changed from flasks is I will flat never play anything again that can't be fully curse immune. Just never putting up with having to reroll vuln/ele weakness or suffering through perma temp chains and all that crap. It's all maven hat/atiziris/crusader rings+pantheon or whatever is required or the build isn't viable at all anymore imo.

Slaanesh69 · Aug 9, 2021

I have to say, this is the first league in several years where I am taking a long AF time to kill low red map bosses, and even some tankier high yellow map bosses. I am still not gear min/maxxed yet, but I clear these maps likety-split, but still slog through the Division-level hp-sponge bosses.

This league, to my mind, cements one thing - this game is no longer for new players. I mean, the bloat pretty much chased away most newcomers before this league, but the shitty mana issues early and the tanky rare/unique/boss mobs are gonna shred players that haven't killed these mobs/bosses 8 bajillion times like we have.

And I STILL don't understand the details of two of the more recently added three mob bosses - the skeletal tree guys with all the silver/gray attack shit, as well as the green/red/blue(?) bosses. The latter I simply cannot kill deathless, and the attack/spell spam in that encounter is about as retarded as Sirus.

Bubbles · Aug 10, 2021

this is gonna a be an absolute shit show fluff piece. Because no one will have the balls to ask him the tough questions and when getting a generic GGG answer, they do not call out GGG on those answers. But GGG must be in absolute panic over there after seeing the metrics of the new league for doing this interview in the first place.

Things I'm looking forward to in the interview are the greatest hits Chris sings every time, like

We hear you
We will be looking into <issue>
<issue> has been internally discussed
We are aware of <issue> and it's definitely something we want to fix
I can't promise anything but...
<issue> is going to addressed in the future patches

and the bonus track

Suspiciously high number of times the word "exciting" is used

All in all, reddit response is gonna be amazing.

AladainAF · Aug 10, 2021

So not that this is a big deal, but I got an update on my divination card, and I can just say now it was for 8x Mirrors. However, their response is completely counter to what Chris said in the past, which specifically said you could make a 10x Mirror card if you wanted.

My response I got on the 8x Mirror card is that they cannot balance the drop pool to be low enough for the 8x Mirror card to be something they can add, and rejected it to allow me to submit a new reward.

I did so, I can't say what it is right now, but I think it's gonna be cool. Either way, it won't be 8x Mirrors

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