Path of Exile
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Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
Slaanesh69
Millie's Staff Member
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What's the Worf and Solidarity combined response called? I need that for this post.
Derkon
Blackwing Lair Raider
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Announcements - Path of Exile 3.16 Balance - Part 3 - Auras, Curses and Elemental Damage Over Time - Forum - Path of Exile
Path of Exile is a free online-only action RPG under development by Grinding Gear Games in New Zealand.
www.pathofexile.com
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Aura and curse bots do seem quite heavily nerfed. PR nerf? Kinda like banning Empy in Ultimatum. Yeah, he's a faggot and he deserved it. People that run full group MF efficiency do...something...to the economy, but is it the most significant factor?
Moving EE is going to make for some angry summoners.
DoT builds look like they got (enough?) help with those changes to jewels. Not touching cluster jewels seems weird though. There are still cluster jewel notables with worse dot multi than small passives on the tree!
lol at burning arrow being confusing. Some Tencent exec's kid try to play burning arrow and quit in anger?
Their attempts at bolstering ignite single target JUST AFTER NERFING BURNING ARROW is just....wtf? And their suggestions are even more pathetic. The solution to an unstackable dot? An unstackable ground dot! And some attack thing, idk.
Moving EE is going to make for some angry summoners.
DoT builds look like they got (enough?) help with those changes to jewels. Not touching cluster jewels seems weird though. There are still cluster jewel notables with worse dot multi than small passives on the tree!
lol at burning arrow being confusing. Some Tencent exec's kid try to play burning arrow and quit in anger?
Their attempts at bolstering ignite single target JUST AFTER NERFING BURNING ARROW is just....wtf? And their suggestions are even more pathetic. The solution to an unstackable dot? An unstackable ground dot! And some attack thing, idk.
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Thregin
Blackwing Lair Raider
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I think ignite can be ok but it's hard to say honestly. I do like, as i said in previous post, that i can use RT to solve accuracy for ignite builds now.
EE is just exposure now so it's kind of whatever. 25% is pretty sizable but compared to before if you had both exposure (like with a raider) and EE you're going from -70% to -25% resists..
Am i correct in picturing the new reservation thing as if i have 33% reservation efficiency i basically have 133% worth of mana i could reserve?
EE is just exposure now so it's kind of whatever. 25% is pretty sizable but compared to before if you had both exposure (like with a raider) and EE you're going from -70% to -25% resists..
Am i correct in picturing the new reservation thing as if i have 33% reservation efficiency i basically have 133% worth of mana i could reserve?
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Well reservation is a buff for most people, just a nerf for aura bots. Aura effect is a small-ish nerf for normal players and a huge one for aura bots. Same for curses I think. EE change looks like a huge nerf to non-dot EE builds, elemental hit/wild strike that switched and minions mostly, although they said they're "monitoring" minion builds whatever that means, are they monitoring it now so they're gonna buff them before the patch or at they gonna wait until next league to fix it? Some minion builds are also more affected than average builds by the aura nerfs, since aura stacking minion builds were a thing, so double whammy. Oh and Herald of Purity is nerfed because of some unique-only build that used them in a weird way, so that's kinda fucked up.
Overall though the changes look somewhat positive for your average non minion build. You can fit more auras in your builds more easily(as long as your build had less than 50% reduced reservation it's a buff and that's a vast majority of builds) and your curses can be buffed more easily too. I assume it's a buff for cold/fire dot builds too but I can't fucking be bothered doing the math on this versus old EE mechanics.
Overall though the changes look somewhat positive for your average non minion build. You can fit more auras in your builds more easily(as long as your build had less than 50% reduced reservation it's a buff and that's a vast majority of builds) and your curses can be buffed more easily too. I assume it's a buff for cold/fire dot builds too but I can't fucking be bothered doing the math on this versus old EE mechanics.
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Well the math is already kinda done, you don't get more auras per se, but you get aura tresholds easier. There's a nice table on reddit that shows how it works. In this example you can see you can for example run 2 50% auras and a 25% aura at 25% efficiency(albeit with 0mana left so you'd need a bit more), while to get the same result with reduced reservation currently you need 20, but most sources are getting converted 2:1 so with the current "old" 20% reduced reservation you'd actually have 40% efficiency(which is a lot more than what you need to run these auras leaving a decent amount of mana to use skills on top). Now some sources aren't 2:1, they're listed in the manifesto post, but you're still looking at a net improvement in most cases.
Think linking directly works, might have to click it to see the full thing:
As I mentionned it's just the way the new formula works more or less with the 2:1 change, if you had less than 50% reduced reservation in your build, you'll likely be able to drop one or two sources and achieve the same result in the new system. If you had more than 50% reduced reservation, you'll need even more sources to achieve the same result.
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Xevy
Log Wizard
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They're probably going to have to put a "you and your minions" modifier on some of this stuff. People already crying all over about it. A lot of the minion builds are only high-end boss viable with aura stacking. Personally I don't give a shit, I think if you build them right and play correctly you can run them without aura stacking, but aura stacking helps them go from the ~5-10m range to 15-30m range dps.
Changes all look pretty good. They're making us tanky and defensive which means movement skills shouldn't be getting buffed. We're going to be slower and tougher as Chris wants rather than paper thin dodgey zoomer bois.
There's 100% going to be unkillables with some of the defense mechanics they've added. Whether they'll be able to keep up with damage will be interesting.
Changes all look pretty good. They're making us tanky and defensive which means movement skills shouldn't be getting buffed. We're going to be slower and tougher as Chris wants rather than paper thin dodgey zoomer bois.
There's 100% going to be unkillables with some of the defense mechanics they've added. Whether they'll be able to keep up with damage will be interesting.
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Pretty much all the dot stuff was nerfed indirectly. The buffs don't compensate for the losses of EE and EO. Basic math with current knowledge seems to be about a 20% loss, the better item mods and potentially skill points you can assign to other stuff should even that out a bit, but it's certainly not glowing, the likely best case scenario is you break even and it's as strong as before, after you gear up. It'll be straight up weaker until you gear up though, that was the big strengths of EE/EO, they were very potent early. Also the qol of not having to apply these isn't really removed since you still need to apply exposure so doesn't change that much.
Penance
Silver Baronet of the Realm
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True. I'm guessing the math done took into account the better scaling options? While cluster multi sucks balls, regular jewel multi is better. It might be worth it to just grab a ton of Large clusters and stack them with rare jewels no?
In my pea sized brain reading through all these notes it seems like Templar is a clear winner. Armor stackers might be more of a thing now. That area of the tree is looking pretty spicy.
I'd say increasing combat time is a needed change in PoE. Clearing screens is fun for a bit but creates bland gameplay. It also has a chance to solve the one-shot deaths which is probably the worst part of PoE.
We'll see if it pans out.
Trading still wasn't addressed at all, though. It's been repeated a lot but it's just not fun to only buy your gear. And the trading mechanics are weird and janky. Copying and pasting text to send to other players in game? What the fuck is this?
Trade is a hard problem in all ARPGs and no one has gotten it right so far. Deliberate inefficiency in trading is required to make trading not like a job.
The most interesting idea I saw from Last Epoch where they said they're planning to make a bazaar zone where players can put their items up for trade and others can zone into it. The Bazaar is huge and the players are randomly placed. You cannot choose to find a specific vendor but must hunt for items on a shop by shop basis. This makes getting the perfect items another hunting mini-game that fits quite well with ARPGs.
Direct player-player trading would have to be disabled in this model which probably upsets a lot of players so no established company has the balls to do it.
Honestly, most interesting idea i've heard in a while. I hope PoE starts exploring ideas like this.
We'll see if it pans out.
Trading still wasn't addressed at all, though. It's been repeated a lot but it's just not fun to only buy your gear. And the trading mechanics are weird and janky. Copying and pasting text to send to other players in game? What the fuck is this?
Trade is a hard problem in all ARPGs and no one has gotten it right so far. Deliberate inefficiency in trading is required to make trading not like a job.
The most interesting idea I saw from Last Epoch where they said they're planning to make a bazaar zone where players can put their items up for trade and others can zone into it. The Bazaar is huge and the players are randomly placed. You cannot choose to find a specific vendor but must hunt for items on a shop by shop basis. This makes getting the perfect items another hunting mini-game that fits quite well with ARPGs.
Direct player-player trading would have to be disabled in this model which probably upsets a lot of players so no established company has the balls to do it.
Honestly, most interesting idea i've heard in a while. I hope PoE starts exploring ideas like this.
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Slaanesh69
Millie's Staff Member
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No.
PoE should NOT be slowed down - it is what took it above and beyond older generation ARPGs. GGG spent something like 4 years speeding the game up to a peak and then regretted that players were "not playing the game the way we envisioned" but having fun and feeling powerful and playing in droves and then this league said Fuck You slow down and look at how shit it was.
That was a terrible sentence. And to an extent I agree on the one-shot deaths but I think slower gameplay is FAR blander than the zoom zoom PoE became.
Also, I don't know if you are relatively new to PoE or something but trade is NEVER going to be addressed unless TenCent takes over completely and there is zero New Zealand influence remaining. EQ had a trade bazaar what seems like decades ago WITH a search function and a floaty, glowly path that would lead you to the trader. GGG could easily clean up their trade system, they have long ago decided not to.
You know the two times when I enjoyed PoE the most? During the Leaguestone league when I could decide how I wanted to play and Ultimatum, when I feel like player power was at a peak and I felt like I had a modicum of a chance for deep content advancement without selling my soul and my life to the game (I did not play the Garden of GGG and I am not a crafter anyway, so I don't choose that league). And you know what GGG did after both - no leaguestones because you skip content GGG insists you play, and less power because fuck you, that's why, I guess?
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That's like your opinion, man. Zooming doesn't provide varied gameplay. It's just the same over and over. It's a fun over and over but these games can do better. The interesting question is whether POE's non-zoom gameplay can be made as engaging as the zooming. I imagine you don't think so.
There are two ways the EQ bazaar isn't comparable.
1. EQ didn't have the kind of randomized loot that ARPGs have. This makes 'hunting' for an item less of a game in EQ.
2. EQ's search function was an effort to make it easier to find what players were looking for. They had no thought that making it harder to find things could actually be a good thing. The developers didn't see all that they lost with the original EC tunnel. The EC tunnel is the kind of inefficiency that I am talking about.
I've personally implemented a second-generation trading system in another (children's) MMO and found our player base was less engaged after we made trading more efficient. This was a long time ago but I believe game developers like Blizzard are now learning that making the player's life easier isn't always the best policy. They lose the play and often social aspects.