I agree with you Vorph about the loot system, I get a mini anxiety attack every time my buddy and I rupture a loot pi?ata. I like that they seem to round-robin loot drops but if they keep this system my preference would be longer timers, especially if you are in a group with someone not on your friends list. The beta announcement from GGG makes me wonder if they are going to implement different loot options like in traditional mmos.GGG Beta Anouncements_sl said:
Path of Exile
- Thread starter Jim Russel
- Start date
-
Guest, it's time once again for the massively important and exciting FoH Asshat Tournament!
Go here and give us your nominations!Who's been the biggest Asshat in the last year? Give us your worst ones!
- 11,259
- 2,383
Afaik:
Fireball doesn't do aoe dmg if it pierces, fork or chain, on the target it does that. It only does an aoe on the final target hit(for example if you have 50% to pierce, shoot at one mob, it pierces the first and explode on the 2nd, first will get hit by single target dmg, 2nd mob will create an aoe). Concentratred work fine on the explosion. LMP/GMP can be used to shotgun mobs as expected.
Fireball is alright but not great. It does pretty good dmg if you LMP shotgun a mob in the face and with a quality fireball+flammability, it has a high chance to burn even on non crits, with proliferation you then don't really "need" fork or chain, since the burning is applied to everything around for equal dmg, it's just a bit slow since it's over time dmg(but then you get 70%burning from searing touch and like 60%more for the burning big node in the passives). Also the spell sucks dicks until you have a bunch of supports on it.
++ All of this.
Picked this up yesterday after not really liking it much a year ago when I tried it and so far it's vastly improved, have a 26 HC shadow. I get enough of my internet fucktards fix playing LoL, I played D3 HC solo and occasionally with the gf and i'm playing this game the same way, to get a break from the unwashed masses.
I can't believe they decided to go with the spam click to collect mp loot system though.. that's funny, welcome back to the year 2000.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
- 20,518
- 14,243
Hey, just because it's an old system doesn't make it "bad". I personally want them to keep this game truer to the ARPG genre and that includes FFA loot in my opinion. Blizzard tried to make D3 some sort of weird ARPG/MMO hybrid and it killed all the replay value. FFA loot adds an extra level of danger to multiplayer, especially in HC. It's basically why Kripp died, he wanted to go grab his loot and got Detonated.
I've been in games where people respected each other's loot, and you guys are right it's a much calmer experience. But I get a bit of a rush when something drops and I have to be quick enough to get it, or risk dying while trying to. I used to think I didn't want any of that kind of stuff anymore, when they first announced personal loot and the never need to re-roll style of gameplay in D3 I said to myself "Great decision, I'm going to play this game non-stop". But in reality it made the game so boring for me to the point where I couldn't play it longer than a month.
And like you guys said, the game is fun enough solo or with a couple friends so there is no reason to group if you don't want to. I just happen to like grouping, it's a nice break from the constant kiting I need to do on my shadow since I can usually just stay behind the marauder/duelists and spam EK. Missing a rare here or there doesn't bother me at all, they drop like candy in groups anyway.
Jim Russel
Lord Nagafen Raider
- 509
- 50
That's not entirely correct. If fireball pierces, it does aoe on the first target but not any subsequent targets--(how would the game determine last target until it was too late?).
I will be adding pierce as a support gem eventually because it will allow better penetration of burning into large packs.
LMP, chain, and fork would not be a good choices for this build because it reduces the damage of each fireball and therefore the damage of the burning that gets proliferated. Similarly, casting speed is not particularly useful for this build because burning doesn't exactly stack (mobs keep all the burning debuffs but only the highest damage one at any time causes any damage).
The spell is very weak for single targets.
I've been curious about how concentrated effects would work, but the aoe on fireball is small enough already that it doesn't seem like a good idea and I already have 5 support gems picked out (EP, chance to ignite, pierce, fire penetration, reduced mana).
This is my current build:
http://www.pathofexile.com/passive-s...QR5oHsGPF2_c8=
I'll be picking up the fire/lightning resist nodes to the left of start then going for pyromaniac, the life nodes to the left of that, a dex node for pierce, the 8% energy shield near the start that I skipped, then maybe immolation or more life/ES nodes after that.
I'll be getting doedre's damning for the +1 curse. I can talk about curses if people are curious.
Edit--Just looked up concentrated effects--it doesn't affect main target damage (supposedly)http://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/84798
- 11,259
- 2,383
Pretty sure it works like I said, but it's annoying to test and I could be wrong. The game can tell when it's the "last target" because your pierce roll fails. The same way the game can tell when it can start forking a projectile that was piercing because it just failed piercing. If you put Pierce and Fork on a projectile, it'll fork if it doesn't pierce, but won't fork if it pierces. Same concept. If it pierces and the fireball doesn't hit anything else, well too bad.
Assumed conc effect worked even on main target, that's pretty shitty if it doesn't.
As for the curses ring, I prefer the boots. I feel they have actually good stats for boots, the ring is fairly shitty other than the curse thing imo. Only thing I dislike about dual curses, is having to cast 2 curses, takes forever and curses cost so much mana too, it's annoying. It's great for bosses but I do like the permanent curses from the actual passives, it's just a lot of points to invest. But permanent temporal+enfeeble is like easy mode on any boss.
Assumed conc effect worked even on main target, that's pretty shitty if it doesn't.
As for the curses ring, I prefer the boots. I feel they have actually good stats for boots, the ring is fairly shitty other than the curse thing imo. Only thing I dislike about dual curses, is having to cast 2 curses, takes forever and curses cost so much mana too, it's annoying. It's great for bosses but I do like the permanent curses from the actual passives, it's just a lot of points to invest. But permanent temporal+enfeeble is like easy mode on any boss.
Delly
Trakanon Raider
- 2,996
- 635
Not that wikis are always correct, but from the POE wiki - "Piercing: A fireball that pierces an enemy and hits another enemy will only cause AoE damage on the first enemy struck. Any additional enemies directly hit by the projectile after it pierces will take full spell damage but the projectile won't trigger another AoE."
If that is correct, then Etwynn would be right. Not that it matters who is right, but that we know how the skill works!
I don't care for being spoon fed, but I wish the devs would just state how each skill is supported by other skills so there isn't a mystery behind it. Makes it a pain for people above the casuals and lower than hardcore to function. I only edit already made builds to my liking, I don't theory craft much or test abilities which makes me shy away from the rarer builds which imo is a shame.
If that is correct, then Etwynn would be right. Not that it matters who is right, but that we know how the skill works!
I don't care for being spoon fed, but I wish the devs would just state how each skill is supported by other skills so there isn't a mystery behind it. Makes it a pain for people above the casuals and lower than hardcore to function. I only edit already made builds to my liking, I don't theory craft much or test abilities which makes me shy away from the rarer builds which imo is a shame.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
- 20,518
- 14,243
One of the reasons information is so sparse might be because they are a small team and since this is still beta and the game and skills are very subject to change they don't want to create any informative lists just yet.
Vorph
Silver Baronet of the Realm
- 11,576
- 5,383
The official wiki has gotten a lot better about stating which support skills work with which main skills. Used to be you had to find out the hard way that combinations like Freezing Pulse and Fork didn't work but LMP/GMP does (because of the piercing) but pretty much all of it is up there now.
They really need to do another balance pass on the supports too. Some of them were nerfed to the point of being useless.
They really need to do another balance pass on the supports too. Some of them were nerfed to the point of being useless.
- 11,259
- 2,383
Hmm supports seem fine to me? Not sure which one you feel is too weak, chain is still fine, fork is still useful on the same spells it was before/until you get chain, lmp is still great, gmp is still situational(mostly for totems) I guess this one could use a buff. Or you're talking about the bit "weird" stuff like accuracy, stun, knockback and such? Those are super situational but accuracy is actually pretty damn good now with quality, it fixes all your accuracy issues on its own, costs no mana and adds some crit to go with it too so it's not a complete loss. Saves you quite a lot of skill points if you're not dex based or right next to resolute techniques.
Chance to flee is fairly shitty, melee on full life a bit obsolete now(with how hard it is to make a CI GR melee char) but for the most part I think the supports are pretty well balanced currently, none of them is insanely better than the others(other than stuff like melee physical vs weapon elemental depending on the attack, but that's obvious) and you have a fair choice. This is especially true for projectile, with chain nerfed, it's actually a decent choice now to simply go pierce instead(assuming the ability behaves ok with pierce, say like lightning strike), or stay with fork.
And yeah guess I was wrong on fireball, when I played fireball for a bit I thought it exploded on the end and not on the start with fork. Likely wrong though, the aoe explosions hit are sometimes delayed and shit it feels weird, like you hit a mob and it dies .5secs later instead of right away. Haven't played it much though, I didn't like it and preferred firestorm builds.
Currently playing explosive arrow witch though. I played it on closed beta till lvl 25 or so and really liked it and I had a Quill Rain in my stash anyway(first unique I found, it's like ilvl 14, it's terrible). Doing the Elemental Equilibrium variant, it's pretty fun, even though I feel bad in groups, I'm generally shitting on either the cold or lightning users because I use +cold or +light dmg on my gear to proc the -50% fire for the explosions.
Chance to flee is fairly shitty, melee on full life a bit obsolete now(with how hard it is to make a CI GR melee char) but for the most part I think the supports are pretty well balanced currently, none of them is insanely better than the others(other than stuff like melee physical vs weapon elemental depending on the attack, but that's obvious) and you have a fair choice. This is especially true for projectile, with chain nerfed, it's actually a decent choice now to simply go pierce instead(assuming the ability behaves ok with pierce, say like lightning strike), or stay with fork.
And yeah guess I was wrong on fireball, when I played fireball for a bit I thought it exploded on the end and not on the start with fork. Likely wrong though, the aoe explosions hit are sometimes delayed and shit it feels weird, like you hit a mob and it dies .5secs later instead of right away. Haven't played it much though, I didn't like it and preferred firestorm builds.
Currently playing explosive arrow witch though. I played it on closed beta till lvl 25 or so and really liked it and I had a Quill Rain in my stash anyway(first unique I found, it's like ilvl 14, it's terrible). Doing the Elemental Equilibrium variant, it's pretty fun, even though I feel bad in groups, I'm generally shitting on either the cold or lightning users because I use +cold or +light dmg on my gear to proc the -50% fire for the explosions.
- 11,259
- 2,383
Wouldn't say that, there's quite a few abilities that don't benefit quite as much. Lightning Strike for example imo is better with Pierce now. Get a 10-12% quality LS with Pierce and it has 100% pierce, add LMP and it's basically a super large cone aoe. Chain wouldn't reduce the damage more and hit less targets and cost more mana. I feel if the spell can cover a large area with its base state, pierce tends to be better. If the ability has limited area to begin with(like lightning arrow), then yeah chain is still best cause it'll find the targets. Fork is a bit inbetween. But chain is certainly not "overnerfed". It's actually nerfed just right. It was nerfed super heavily AND is still good, shows how stupid it was before.
GMP has a much smaller niche. I guess it could use some small buffs so there's a point over LMP, which there is rarely atm. It's even harder in generally to shotgun with GMP than LMP cause the side projectiles tend to miss. I think it's only really good with Ice Spear totems, because of the high crit chance to compensate for the dmg loss and potentially other totems like Ice shot totem or Arctic Breath totems, where the goal is applying debuffs more so than actually doing dmg.
Stun, Knockback, Chance to Flee are too weak to be really worth using, or too niche whichever. I like Blind and Accuracy though, I think those are really strong supports considering they're free and what they give you in return, especially quality ones. It's fine to have those though I think, if someone ever wants to make an "untouchable" build or something, it's nice they're there and they were easy to implement as they're just existing mechanics. Kripp's last build for example showed you can use Stun in a weird perma stun build.
Dashivax
N00b
- 114
- 3
The effective damage of Chain will always be greater than Pierce, because Chain always finds a target to hit if there is one.
Yeah pierce is probably better for LS still, but that has more to do with LS being garbage than anything. You have to fill the screen with bolts to effectively hit things, and even then half of them are missing anyway.
Yeah pierce is probably better for LS still, but that has more to do with LS being garbage than anything. You have to fill the screen with bolts to effectively hit things, and even then half of them are missing anyway.
I agree 100% on the loot issue. Half of the time my click on the item doesn't even work, I'm not sure if others have this problem as well but I don't think that it's a lag or latency issue. Playing in a group is generally just a bad experience for me. All of the ability effects going off all over the place, minions, it generally being hard to find any target that you want to kill let alone the target that you want to kill (a rare mob for example), then add on top of that being unable to get your loot half of the time, it's just retarded.
Is anyone playing a summoner? I'm level 60 something right now as a Hardcore Templar Summoner and it's going pretty well. I went Templar because of the easier start compared to a Witch in the open beta wipe. My build should be completed around level 80, the website and servers are down right now for maintenance but I'll post my build pretty soon. I'm interested in seeing other peoples summoner builds as well.
As I said, I went melee at the start and that was short of my main build idea, to use the minions to bring me safety while DPSing. After a bit I switched to ranged attacks because my defense was simply too low, I don't have any Armor nodes and I'm using Eldritch Battery for my auras.
How do you guys feel about the Leadership nodes to make sure that the auras hit all of the minions? It wasn't a problem when I was still melee but now that I'm ranged I find that my minions will often times run out of the range of my auras. Sadly it's hard to tell what sort of benefit that receive from the auras but I assume that it's a lot in terms of both damage and survivability. I'm still debating whether I should spend the three points on them but I'm definitely leaning more towards picking them up.
Is anyone playing a summoner? I'm level 60 something right now as a Hardcore Templar Summoner and it's going pretty well. I went Templar because of the easier start compared to a Witch in the open beta wipe. My build should be completed around level 80, the website and servers are down right now for maintenance but I'll post my build pretty soon. I'm interested in seeing other peoples summoner builds as well.
As I said, I went melee at the start and that was short of my main build idea, to use the minions to bring me safety while DPSing. After a bit I switched to ranged attacks because my defense was simply too low, I don't have any Armor nodes and I'm using Eldritch Battery for my auras.
How do you guys feel about the Leadership nodes to make sure that the auras hit all of the minions? It wasn't a problem when I was still melee but now that I'm ranged I find that my minions will often times run out of the range of my auras. Sadly it's hard to tell what sort of benefit that receive from the auras but I assume that it's a lot in terms of both damage and survivability. I'm still debating whether I should spend the three points on them but I'm definitely leaning more towards picking them up.
It's a problem for me as well when trying to target a mob to kill in group play. Seriously, it is really fucking hard, and I can't tell the difference between the damn zombies and the mob. Most of the time finding myself targeting my own zombies.
- 11,259
- 2,383
I think Leadership kinda sucks, I find once you're 60+, your auras base % increase from lvling them is good enough to cover your minions in most cases. I just don't feel it's worth 3points. Inner Force is though if you haven't picked that yet.
As for group play yeah it's pretty messy. Summoners are especially dumb, but other day I grouped with a friend who went for a LMP poison arrow build, shit was so annoying he was covering the whole screen in poison clouds, it was laggy and confusing at the same time, and not particularily useful either, not bad but just not great. I think the grouping works alright but you really need to be able to disable spell effects for other people, or at least have a different version used when grouping that's a lot less eye abrasive and performance raping. Like what they did to sparks. Spark totems were blinding motherfuckers in closed beta, but now you barely notice them in a group(mostly because everything is that more shiny in comparison). It's perfect really. Wish all effects had the same treatment, if only when in groups with other players.
Also obviously they need to make summoned minions untargetable. Even solo it's annoying when you're trying to curse or firetrap a mob surrounded by zombies/skeletons, and when you try to loot rocks and chests after fights and your army stands on top of it so you can't click shit. There is no reason for minions to be targettable. If anything, enable it only when pressing the corpse targetting button(the one only summoners use anyway). This way if you feel like you want to check your zombie's health for whatever reason, it's still there. But mostly removing it would be just fine.
As for group play yeah it's pretty messy. Summoners are especially dumb, but other day I grouped with a friend who went for a LMP poison arrow build, shit was so annoying he was covering the whole screen in poison clouds, it was laggy and confusing at the same time, and not particularily useful either, not bad but just not great. I think the grouping works alright but you really need to be able to disable spell effects for other people, or at least have a different version used when grouping that's a lot less eye abrasive and performance raping. Like what they did to sparks. Spark totems were blinding motherfuckers in closed beta, but now you barely notice them in a group(mostly because everything is that more shiny in comparison). It's perfect really. Wish all effects had the same treatment, if only when in groups with other players.
Also obviously they need to make summoned minions untargetable. Even solo it's annoying when you're trying to curse or firetrap a mob surrounded by zombies/skeletons, and when you try to loot rocks and chests after fights and your army stands on top of it so you can't click shit. There is no reason for minions to be targettable. If anything, enable it only when pressing the corpse targetting button(the one only summoners use anyway). This way if you feel like you want to check your zombie's health for whatever reason, it's still there. But mostly removing it would be just fine.
Dashivax
N00b
- 114
- 3
It's worth the point investment imo. Later on you can get quality aura gems (quality bonus is increased radius) and just respec out of Leadership.
Khane
Got something right about marriage
- 20,518
- 14,243
I have that happen quite a bit. I'm pretty sure it has to do with collision detection between players (I get blocked by other players) and the fact that pathing in this game absolutely sucks. So instead of just running around the other players automatically the game runs me directly into them if they are between me and whatever I'm trying to click.