Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous
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Caliane
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fighting arena has summons and teleports barred. def a huge problem as one of the default npcs, is a conjuration/summon spec sorcerer.
also, shadow plane, so any light producing spell has a chance to fail.
Parents showed up at the house mid post, so I kindof cut it short.
but yeah. he is another level 37something deathsnatcher. versus level 11 party. 47 AC. a couple dispellable buffs, but sorc doesn't have G.dispell yet. my cleric can get it. which is an option to help. might need to find a rest spot.
the dlc "mythic" stuff is a bunch of cold related stuff. allows the sorc do bypass cold immune. so, can wear him down with cold spells/magic missile..
but, the dude also will 2 shot your party, and casts a massive aoe polar midnight which will wreck you as well.
(also regen 15/silver.)
if you make your own party, not nearly as bad. things like mark of justice, guarded hearth, witch hexes make short work of him. but I don't have those. haha.
edit:
good news. polar midnight can be "easily" dispelled with dispel point. bad news, he still just kills 1 or 2 of my party every round, dealing 200-300/turn.
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Caliane
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yeah, all attempts as is, were failing miserably. nothing was landing, would be lucky to land 1 hit in on a crit, before he'd just flatten my party.
so, reloaded back to an old save. one before the previous rest. Can only rest at supply stations, not randomly. previously, I had rested, buffed, then moved on. leveled up after having rested. and some buffs had dropped off before the fight even.
new save now, I leveled up. and have not rested yet. resting will let my cleric have level 6 spells. which notably will include g.dispel, (and a take 20 eyeglass).
I also noticed, sendri had a negative level.. which is cleared now. Death ward will be up for tanks now properly. I think I had it on 1 prior. won't make much diff, while he does do negative level damage.. the dude would just 1 or 2 shot everyone anyway.
Another big potential factor, going back I noticed a hidden loot pile I missed the first time. requires dimension door to access. contained a scroll of Holy aura.
also, the fight is in a demiplane, the shadowplane debuff is not in effect. I was wrong on that. although, the no teleports/summons is in effect.
so, reloaded back to an old save. one before the previous rest. Can only rest at supply stations, not randomly. previously, I had rested, buffed, then moved on. leveled up after having rested. and some buffs had dropped off before the fight even.
new save now, I leveled up. and have not rested yet. resting will let my cleric have level 6 spells. which notably will include g.dispel, (and a take 20 eyeglass).
I also noticed, sendri had a negative level.. which is cleared now. Death ward will be up for tanks now properly. I think I had it on 1 prior. won't make much diff, while he does do negative level damage.. the dude would just 1 or 2 shot everyone anyway.
Another big potential factor, going back I noticed a hidden loot pile I missed the first time. requires dimension door to access. contained a scroll of Holy aura.
also, the fight is in a demiplane, the shadowplane debuff is not in effect. I was wrong on that. although, the no teleports/summons is in effect.
Caliane
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finally beat him. just raw luck/beatdown.
I did go further, and got a scroll of legendary proportions, then went back which helped alot.
icy prison/polymorph totally failed. What ended up working was just attacks/round, hitting on crits. and notably pentas thundercall. thundercall dealing 1d8 sonic, and having a fort save for stunned. it skips spell resist. so just straight fort save.. now, he DOES have like 29 fort save, so, only failed on a 1. but repeat every round, and it gets through once in a while. which forces him to skip a turn, and removes his dex AC. generally able to get some dps in when it happens.
Also, the sendri question. icyprison/poly morph every turn? (poly when freedom of movement is up, prison when its not)? or, dispel every turn to try and force him to rebuff, or get some of those AC buffs off? as well as divine power/greater magic fang?, or, have him snowball/mm/battering blast every turn maximized/bolstered? again, poly/prison attempts all failed. dispel every round was not going great. his spell resist is so high, spells often fail outright, never mind the spell DC after the resist.
so, again, the raw snowball, bb worked. just paired with hits/round.
I think penta's thundercall proced twice on the win. which is huge luck. also seems to be bugged? was only doing 1d8. level 11 I think its supposed to do 3d8.
mark of justice/home guard would make this fight cake.
older version of the dlc I think had issues with the silver regen. all the guides talk about buying a mithral kama much earlier in the game so you have a means to kill him. idk, but currently theres a shopekeeper in the area that sells mithril, and alch silver weapons. also, sendri can get silvery barbs spell.
I did go further, and got a scroll of legendary proportions, then went back which helped alot.
icy prison/polymorph totally failed. What ended up working was just attacks/round, hitting on crits. and notably pentas thundercall. thundercall dealing 1d8 sonic, and having a fort save for stunned. it skips spell resist. so just straight fort save.. now, he DOES have like 29 fort save, so, only failed on a 1. but repeat every round, and it gets through once in a while. which forces him to skip a turn, and removes his dex AC. generally able to get some dps in when it happens.
Also, the sendri question. icyprison/poly morph every turn? (poly when freedom of movement is up, prison when its not)? or, dispel every turn to try and force him to rebuff, or get some of those AC buffs off? as well as divine power/greater magic fang?, or, have him snowball/mm/battering blast every turn maximized/bolstered? again, poly/prison attempts all failed. dispel every round was not going great. his spell resist is so high, spells often fail outright, never mind the spell DC after the resist.
so, again, the raw snowball, bb worked. just paired with hits/round.
I think penta's thundercall proced twice on the win. which is huge luck. also seems to be bugged? was only doing 1d8. level 11 I think its supposed to do 3d8.
mark of justice/home guard would make this fight cake.
older version of the dlc I think had issues with the silver regen. all the guides talk about buying a mithral kama much earlier in the game so you have a means to kill him. idk, but currently theres a shopekeeper in the area that sells mithril, and alch silver weapons. also, sendri can get silvery barbs spell.
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Urlithani
Vyemm Raider
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-No Pathfinder, Starfinder, World of Darkness projects in development
-Future games will be fully voiced
-One new game will be UE5, will be more cinematic and will have a larger budget
-Other games may be traditional isometric CRPGs
-The games in development are NOT new IPs from Owlcat
-Potential Kingmaker/WOTR remaster to 2E ruleset in the future (Not confirmed, they aren’t sure whether to do it yet and even if they did that wouldn’t be a thing for atleast 3 years)
- Owlcat is working on 4 games right now.
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Burns
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How unfortunate. The Pathfinder games were their best work; I didn't even finish the Warhammer game. Getting Kingmaker and WOTR into the more recent Pathfinder rules also seems like a waste of resources unless it's as a promo when they are about to release a new Pathfinder game.
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Aaron
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Owlcat making a Starfinder game with the same engine and setup as Kingmaker or WotR would make me cream my pants.
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reavor
I'm With HER ♀
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Owlcat and Larian make absolutely amazing brand-based ruleset RPGs, that do very well in the market, but both decide to stop making games in the same vein. Instead hint at own IP cinematic games. Is it really become that much of a pain to deal with the likes of paizo/hasbro, or is the crpg market that bad? what a shame, seems we are again at the point where there are no interesting big brand classical crpgs on the horizon.
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Gavinmad
Mr. Poopybutthole
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The CRPG market has always been that bad. Kingmaker sold 1m copies. WotR sold about the same from what I can find despite being much larger in scope with far more content, even if it did get a bit wordy at times. The crazy success of Baldur's Gate 3 is an aberration that is not likely to happen again anytime soon.
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Caliane
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yeah.
Wotr, despite being a sequel to a great crpg, having that word of mouth. Despite ALSO being heralded as one of the best crpgs of all time. as of jan 2023, 1 million copies.
It would be interesting to see what DLC has done for an updated number. But, that they haven't announced it, it's probably not remarkable.
Rogue trader hit 500k 1 month after release. no word since. despite being 40k, despite the stellar word of mouth on Wrath of the righteous. if it broke wotr sales numbers, they would have said so. if it hit 1.5m, or 2m, they would have made an announcement.
Larian was nearly dead before divinity:OS. But, OS:2 REALLY sparked something in the general public, which then continued and exploded even more with BG3.
Disco elysuim is also a breakout. Im seeing 2.6m sales on Steam alone by march 2023.
both are light on crunchy builds, and heavy on narratives. so, likely the normies prefer that. See Bioware as well. Ultimately thats the reality. thats what killed old school rpgs. Ulima, might and magic, black isle, trokia, etc. all died. while rpgs transitioned over to Consoles, and action light rpgs from bioware, fable, elder scrolls, etc.
Heavy turn based tactical rpgs have always been niche. can even look over at final fantasy. tactics versus mainline. everyone loves tactics... but the sales don't line up.
Wotr, despite being a sequel to a great crpg, having that word of mouth. Despite ALSO being heralded as one of the best crpgs of all time. as of jan 2023, 1 million copies.
It would be interesting to see what DLC has done for an updated number. But, that they haven't announced it, it's probably not remarkable.
Rogue trader hit 500k 1 month after release. no word since. despite being 40k, despite the stellar word of mouth on Wrath of the righteous. if it broke wotr sales numbers, they would have said so. if it hit 1.5m, or 2m, they would have made an announcement.
Larian was nearly dead before divinity:OS. But, OS:2 REALLY sparked something in the general public, which then continued and exploded even more with BG3.
Disco elysuim is also a breakout. Im seeing 2.6m sales on Steam alone by march 2023.
both are light on crunchy builds, and heavy on narratives. so, likely the normies prefer that. See Bioware as well. Ultimately thats the reality. thats what killed old school rpgs. Ulima, might and magic, black isle, trokia, etc. all died. while rpgs transitioned over to Consoles, and action light rpgs from bioware, fable, elder scrolls, etc.
Heavy turn based tactical rpgs have always been niche. can even look over at final fantasy. tactics versus mainline. everyone loves tactics... but the sales don't line up.
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Given the current woke arc of d&d and the frothing blue hairs around it, I can only imagine not wanting to work with that again. Paizo is likely in the same ballpark. Just without as much cultural clout. Extremely unlikely to happen, but Earthdawn would be cool. Unless their doing a home built system, there’s kinda only palladium, and uhh gurps/ hero’s left from ye old rpg systems.
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Maybe they'll do a RIFTS crpg. I would imagine Palladium would be more than happy to make some bank off game rights. That would be a wonderful world, but I don't know if you can actually get the rule set to run or it would probably be a real bitch to program.
A man can dream...
A man can dream...
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Aaron
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I'd say it's a bit of both. On the one hand, while Owlcat made a pretty amazing interface for how complex a system Pathfinder is, it still needs a guide to get you to not fuck up your build half way through. Most here have played enough RPGs to know how to get through this, but the mainstream just either doesn't have the patience, knowledge or desire to put time into it. But then you also almost certainly have these big corporations breathing down the neck of the dev teams trying to shoehorn in all sorts of the latest corporate BS into the game so they can get points for whatever is the rage in the boardroom at any given time.
But developing your own IP is also risky. Look at Obsidian and Pillars, one of the best original systems out there. Pillars 2 is arguably one of the best RPGs of the past 10 years, but sold only about 500k copies I think. RPGs always will be a niche market unless you dumb them down to a system where the average idiot can get through it without too much trouble as with Skyrim. (Not saying Skyrim was bad, it was great especially story and exploration wise, but as an RPG system was very bare bones).
But developing your own IP is also risky. Look at Obsidian and Pillars, one of the best original systems out there. Pillars 2 is arguably one of the best RPGs of the past 10 years, but sold only about 500k copies I think. RPGs always will be a niche market unless you dumb them down to a system where the average idiot can get through it without too much trouble as with Skyrim. (Not saying Skyrim was bad, it was great especially story and exploration wise, but as an RPG system was very bare bones).
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Nirgon
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Gavinmad
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Not much to it but free is free. I suppose the cloak is probably bis for mythic paths that aren't using Bound of Possibility. The archetypes seem meh but thats true of the vast majority of archetypes. Both archetypes really want their capstone in the case of the witch archetype I really don't think what you gain is worth losing 2 early hexes and the option to enhance your spell list with loremaster secrets. If you're building a ranged blaster witch you'll have a near limitless supply of hellfire rays anyway so the unlimited use of cantrips isn't that useful.
Defender of the hearth is great in concept but in practice how often will your AC ever be in the sweet spot where you're getting hit enough to consistently trigger shield block to keep your capstone active but not getting absolutely mulched by by the enemy? If you're on higher difficulty levels then you're most likely mount tanking anyway, and I think I'd rather have the default fighter capstone of +1 crit multiplier over the 'double damage for a round after getting hit'.
Defender of the hearth is great in concept but in practice how often will your AC ever be in the sweet spot where you're getting hit enough to consistently trigger shield block to keep your capstone active but not getting absolutely mulched by by the enemy? If you're on higher difficulty levels then you're most likely mount tanking anyway, and I think I'd rather have the default fighter capstone of +1 crit multiplier over the 'double damage for a round after getting hit'.
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Caliane
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yeah. scaling cantrips is pretty strong early game. but become pretty pointless once you get abundant casting. And then witch has alot of buffs, and hexes don't do damage directly.. so the idea is sound. the capstone is not just cantrips. but, probably is weaker then xblooded sorc. so..why?
that witch probably would be great for Through the ashes/lord of nothing campaign though. no abundant casting/mythic powers, levels 1-5.5-11.
thats one of the crazy things with this game. all the archetypes/classes, all the dlc adding new animations, enemies, and environments. it feels like they are adding content for player made campaigns. yet there is no toolbox/creator yet.
that witch probably would be great for Through the ashes/lord of nothing campaign though. no abundant casting/mythic powers, levels 1-5.5-11.
thats one of the crazy things with this game. all the archetypes/classes, all the dlc adding new animations, enemies, and environments. it feels like they are adding content for player made campaigns. yet there is no toolbox/creator yet.
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