Problem with every mmorpg

Daidraco_sl said:

Thats one thing Im starting to see in MMO's that I wish would follow suit with future mmo's. Mobs just standing around not doing anything is just kind of lame. But they are slowly changing how things work across the board. NPC's that go home at night time and come back out for the day and vice versa. Illegal Trading in BDO where NPC's come out at night time to do "illegal stuff" is cool. NPC's that are running up and down the road with trade supplies. Merchants that move from town to town. NPC's that are chopping trees down and taking logs over to a log pile. Little things like that help with immersion so much, I think. If games would just make monsters have some type of daily routine, that would be all the more cooler. Just make it look like a living, breathable, believable world!

.. and Im fine with NPC's taking longer to kill than a second or two as long as the exp amount is bigger. BDO has packs of mobs that are a mix. Usually 3 low health mobs, 1 ranged mob and 1 heavy. The 3 low healths die in a second, the ranged you usually have to run to and the heavy takes about 5 seconds. Adds a small amount of flavor to each monster type.

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This is critical for me to play and invest in a living world
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... Story bricks

I don't get it. You complain that you don't level fast enough? Most modern games can max level your guy in a week or less. How much faster do you want it to go?

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

That's just a bullshit statement.

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Can you name a recent MMO that that took longer than 2 weeks to max out a character?

Flipmode_sl said:

Can you name a recent MMO that that took longer than 2 weeks to max out a character?

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Feels like he forgot about hell levels in vanilla EQ

Harkon_sl said:

Feels like he forgot about hell levels in vanilla EQ

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I said recent. We aren't talking about EQ. Every modern MMO I've played, been max level inside a week. I haven't played tree of savior but I generally avoid Asian grind games.

Most people's complaint is stuff is too fast and too easy. They wish the games would be slowed down. I can recall Draegan saying he wished there was no levels and just jump into end game. Others I've heard opine for the slow days of leveling. Realistically, most MMOs are and the fast side of the spectrum. Complaining about those is just fucking silly.

I don't really understand the complaint here. You feel that since you're a higher level the mobs should die faster, give more XP? Why shouldn't mobs scale as you level? I think the challenge needs to exist at all levels but a good game will introduce new class skills to help combat the new challenges. One thing I liked about EQ is there were abilities that bridged certain classes to a completely new play style than they were used to. Wizard and quading for instance, even tho that wasn't intended. Even Rift did a good job with the lock/cholo build if you were a smart enough player and could see the potential when you mix those soul skills together. Maybe the class bridge stuff is a little off topic but you are powerful and that's why you own those lower level mobs that used to give you a hard time or you can AE more of them but I don't understand the thought process of steamrolling everything insight bc you think you're the most powerful thing in the world. It should be more about complex AI and having to figure out what abilities would be best used to overcome that complexity. Games should become more challenging as you advance, maybe XP rate isn't the best way to highlight that but I understand why it's part of the equation used in a lot of games.

Go play gw2, even level curve.

Yea I'm not really sure where you are going with your arguments bilbo... you want a game that takes 40 hours to get lvl 20 and then the next 40 hours gets you to lvl 200 because you are stranger? Then the third block gets you to level 9001! No max level cause then you might feel weak?

The one example you gave of a game where you don't level cap in a week or less is a game all about grinding and grinding and then grinding some more...

Biggest draw for me in an mmo is immersion. I loved UO, EQ even tho I didn't get to endgame etc like most people here, vanilla Wow, and now black desert. Most of the others I've played are fun for a bit but just don't draw me in like the ones I've loved. Ff14 came close but I think part of that was playing with my brother. I like sandbox endgame more than running the same dungeon 262 times endgame.

I like all (decent) MMOs for a while, then only the good ones stick around. My favourite? WoW for sure, even if EQ has a special place in my memories, when I look at myself playing it so many years ago, my first thought is "How could I put up with that shit?".
I like following plots and stories, minor and major ones, zone stories and large questline bringing me all over the world. I like exploring and occasionally I'm ok with grinding for drops, be them for tradeskills or other things, not just grinding for experience. I need a reason to do stuff, not just mindlessly killing, for that there are far better games than MMOs. Immersion still means something to me, even if WoW and similar games are doing everything in their power to ruin it (from xpack to xpack it only gets worse), there is still something there that makes me chase the fucking carrot.

I actually agree with Drae. The leveling shit is just unnecesarry now. There are so other options and gaining skills was a good point. I liked where EQ Next was headed in "theory" with equipment and skills. No levels, no skill point or AA points. Just totally based off gear and achievements. You beat the biggest asshole NPC in the area and you might get a chest that unlocks a skill that would allow you to journey into the next area. The next areas barrier to entry only being easily ignored by the skill of the previous areas boss. Ideas like that arent hard to come up with and I really think Dev's, if allowed, could come up with some great ideas that would shit on the leveling treadmill.

Playing on a vanilla wow realm gives me some perspective into things that made the game feel truly massive and more of an adventure and less focused on just maximising your gains. It's too arcade-y nowadays.

For example, yesterday I was killing deviate's in the outdoor area of wailing caverns and a group of alliance showed up. These guys had decided that they wanted to do wailing caverns, and trecked the whole way here which is awesome in itself, it's a goddamn adventureto move from duskwood to booty bay, to ratchet and then from there to wailing caverns, especially at such a low level.

Same thing on my paladin, I got the quest to make verigan's first, oh go to shadowfang keep? Time for a long ass run where who knows what I'll run into

The item level hysteria and the "higher ilvl = always better" made gear less interesting. Look back at how many weird wonky trinkets that existed in vanilla and realise that all of them aside from say, the ones that drop from archimonde today are just stat sticks with occasional procs. Compare that to the one that gave you a 4 second stun off the coast of Arathi, the mount carrot, hand of justice for extra attacks or even the frostwolf insignia for some odd defensive stats and a neat teleport. Heck, the beta version of six demon bag gave you invisibility, I think trinkets should be more like this (heck, all items should be more focused on interesting effects and less about this min/maxing balance) because it just adds flavor and more fun to the game.

With that said, the worst thing about diablo 3 is its itemisation. It's better today, but it started off as a copy of wow and damn that was awful.

I agree with other points too, I hate being called hero (especially by the same voice actress who voiced ALL the orc ladies in WoD) and wish I could go back to simpler times. MoP was the best expansion since wotlk because it was all about exploring things rather than the general cliche bad guy story they keep pushing. I don't mind if it's lighthearted, I truly think legion is one of the least interesting enemies because there's zero complexity to them.

I feel I've gone off on too many tangents and I'll end with this: MMORPG's suck because they keep trying to revolutionise instead of going back to what actually worked and got people hooked in the first place. I want my next mmo I play to have revolutionary tab-targeting and hotkey-based targeted abilities with rng mechanics if you hit, miss, dodge, parry or whatever. Call me crazy

kitsune_sl said:

The item level hysteria and the "higher ilvl = always better" made gear less interesting. Look back at how many weird wonky trinkets that existed in vanilla and realise that all of them aside from say, the ones that drop from archimonde today are just stat sticks with occasional procs. Compare that to the one that gave you a 4 second stun off the coast of Arathi, the mount carrot, hand of justice for extra attacks or even the frostwolf insignia for some odd defensive stats and a neat teleport. Heck, the beta version of six demon bag gave you invisibility, I think trinkets should be more like this (heck, all items should be more focused on interesting effects and less about this min/maxing balance) because it just adds flavor and more fun to the game.

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More like min/maxing entropy. The "heat death of the universe" philosophy of game design.

Modern mmo's suck because their entire design is around getting you to max lvl as soon as possible and then giving you items to keep you hooked. The entire idea of raiding is what is killing mmos. There is no journey or adventure when you grind out at quest hubs to max your char in a week, and then you go kill dragon01 for that awesome axe you heard about. It defeats the point when you progress that fast. It also gives way to MUDFlation. If designers would focus on creating a slower pace mmo where you getting to max lvl wasn't the end all be all, then mmo's wouldn't suck as much.

FF14 is an Asian game, such is their way.