Red Pill Thread 2.0: Neckbeard Revenge

Phazael · Sep 12, 2014

So, the dude who married the "smoking hot" girl got cheated on out of boredom? Perhaps making assumptions and expectations might not be the best way to lay the foundation for a good long term marriage....

If your friends are a reflection of you and looks are a deal breaker, you probably should not get upset when the kind of women they nab consider $ a deal breaker. Shallow people have shallow relationships, film at eleven. Not to belittle your friend's situation, as divorce is devastating, but I am guessing there is more to the story than you are dropping or you would not have deflected into this "reasonable expectations" arc of treating marriage like a business transaction. Khane is right; that fatalistic cynical view is a shitty way to live and people who marry later in life tend to have much more solid and fulfilling marriages.

Lightning Lord Rule · Sep 12, 2014

Actually, I asked her all of the classic questions. Did he abuse you physically? No. Did he verbally abuse you? No, he was always good to me. Did have any particularly bad habits that drove you away? No, not really. Well then what happened? At this point she kind of danced around a bit, but it basically boiled down to "I was bored".

My own theory is that since she just turned 30, she was feeling very insecure about her looks fading, and she felt she had to take the time to go out and play the field again before her looks faded to the point where she wouldn't be able to. The consequences of her actions never entered her mind, or were dismissed entirely. But that's just my own speculation.

So you guys don't want anecdotes? You don't want data or studies, because they're bullshit. You don't want theory, because it's wrong. You don't want people to try to improve themselves because it's being fake. I may be fatalistic, but you're all just hate filled and close-minded.

Cad · Sep 12, 2014

Lightning Lord Rule_sl said:
So you guys don't want anecdotes? You don't want data or studies, because they're bullshit. You don't want theory, because it's wrong. You don't want people to try to improve themselves because it's being fake. I may be fatalistic, but you're all just hate filled and close-minded.

Anecdotes are fine but they don't prove or show anything other than one happened that one time that you got 1/2 the story.

Data or studies are fine but the results are highly dependent on the methods used. They can have a slant.

I definitely want people to go improve themselves. Sorry Phazeal, the less fatties I have to look at out in the world, the better. Please, go improve yourselves. Get better jobs so I don't have to pay 6 figures in tax again next year. Etc. Please do.

Don't try to adopt some fake act just to score chicks.

Lithose · Sep 12, 2014

ZyyzYzzy_sl said:
To Lithose, let us not forget that consciousness is a product of our brain and as such is just a summation of neruochemical interactions. This doesn't change the fact that emotions like love, anger or empathy can be and are influencedby consciousness as well as the subconscious.

I agree, here is a quote from that thread.

Lithose_sl said:
If the sensory stimulation had been sent via Matrix or through the real world, the alteration in your perception would have been net result the same IF the sensory information was the same. Wouldn't it have? (Yes. Yes it would.)Which means your mind did not alter the reality, rather it formed reality based off of sensory input. (AndFROM there, the reality can be quite moddable--some guys will hate her, some might forgive ect.)

Now, given, as Dumar mentioned--the nature of that debate was different. My position was that sensory input is sensory input--it's just electric or chemical signals. Your consciousness has no effect on those actual signals, in the end it's all just electrons traveling up a nerve or a chemical bonding with a receptor. Now, how you INTERPRET them, is a different story--but at their core,realitydoes not change, sensory information is merely an aspect of physics. So if you had some "perfect matrix" machine, that could activate sensory organs in a perfect simulation--it wouldn't matter if your brain was in a jar or your body they effectively become thesamething. Dumar was trying to argue that our conscious perception was strong enough to evenalter the nature of those basic sensory inputs. That there was an intrinsicothernessattributed to our consciousness that affected ourreality. And so, a reality built off simulation--even if it was a perfect sensory simulation--was "lesser" (At least, less fulfilling. The thread was very much a Romantic vs Enlightenment debate).

I only linked the conversation because I find it a little humorous to believe that conciousness is powerful enough to alter the very fundamentals of reality; but for sex, it's not even powerful enough to affect attraction.

Dumar_sl said:
I'm consciously thinking of my hotass girlfriend waiting for me at home tonight in sexy lingerie, for example: this produces arousal and amorous feelings, a downward causation from my consciousness to my underlying physiology. No one should disagree with this (well, except Lith and hodj back in the day, pure reductionists!). This isnotthe same thing as merationally making a choice on attractionin my head, deciding my wife is attractive based on reasoned thinking, and that choice therefore then causing limbic arousal, which never, ever happens - ever, in men or women.

We weren't disagreeing with that. What we were saying is that if your hot ass wife's figure was communicated to you through actual photons hitting your eyeball and then stimulating the nerve OR merely the stimulation of the nerves in a pattern that the eye would have done--you wouldn't be able to tell the difference. The actual method by which the nerves are activated, don't matter--only the pattern of activation. And that's because the basicchemicalandphysicalreactionsof sensory input arenottied to consciousness--just yourinterpretationof them are. You argued, quite emphatically, that reality itself is altered by consciousness; and thus a Matrix would be alesserreality.

It really is Philo 101/existentialism stuff. But the argument was never about how interpretations of information can change due to consciousness--it was about the above. I just found it, as I said above, perplexing that in one thread you believed the very fabric of reality could be altered by consciousness--but in this thread, even simple sexual urges were a slave to those same chemical stimuli that were alterable by consciousness.

Lithose · Sep 12, 2014

Mist_sl said:
Yeah I was gonna say,its pretty fucking clear they didn't do everything right. You're just making assumptions.

Expert troll is expert. But just in case it's not--as Soygen said, it's just the nature of anecdotes. It's perfectly reasonable to believe the men did everything right--and still got fucked (Just as it's also reasonable to believe they didn't; and we simply don't know what they did wrong). It happens, it's possible. It happens to women to.

In the end, as Soygen said--anecdotes. Look hard enough and you'll eventually find examples to justify any position. We have billions of lives to choose from, there will be some crazy examples of shit out there. I don't imagine it would be hard to find a bunch of examples of perfect mates, who treated their others like kings/queens, only to be fucked over and even abused.

Phazael · Sep 12, 2014

Lightning Lord Rule_sl said:
My own theory is that since she just turned 30, she was feeling very insecure about her looks fading, and she felt she had to take the time to go out and play the field again before her looks faded to the point where she wouldn't be able to. The consequences of her actions never entered her mind, or were dismissed entirely. But that's just my own speculation.

Here is an equally valid (and more likely) theory about what went down, sort of along the same lines as yours. Your friend (who in theory shares your value system) using looks as his main criteria for marriage material selection, married a shallow cunt who has always gotten her own way because she is a "smoking hottie". He did this because he is also a shallow cunt and it never occurred to him that marrying someone as self centered and shallow as he is might not be a good plan. Two fuck trophies later, she figures she has put in enough time to ride the alimony train to cougar town, because that is what shallow cunts do. Your assessment about her being insecure about her looks probably is a major reason for this, as well as the fact that most people change massively around age 30. So, being a shallow cunt, she has all the money she needs and still has enough looks to go on a cock hunting spree and get the other thing shallow cunts value as much as money; attention. You should be championing this women, because she is following the RP playbook to a tee. Except she is a woman of course, so she is just a cuckholding unfaithful used up whore, wheras a man who did this would be some next level alpha mangod.

This happens a lot when shallow people who don't really know who they are yet (and most people don't prior to age 30) get married and go through the motions of what they think life is supposed to be. A house built on a foundation of bullshit is not going to stand the test of time. I am not saying my theory is accurate, but I have seen enough of these "omg surprise divorce" scenarios to consider it a likely possibility, based on what you have said. The reality is that neither of us have any real idea what went on behind the scenes and led up to this, but you have your friend's side and are sticking up for him (which is noble and I applaud it), but if anything I said is remotely true and he doesn't want to end up as forever alone guy with a house full of Ikea furniture and two days a week with his kids, he is going to need some tough introspection.

ZyyzYzzy · Sep 12, 2014

Lightning Lord Rule_sl said:
Sorry Phazael, but I don't care how many interests or hobbies I share with a girl, if she's fat, it's a deal breaker for a relationship. You know where you go to the fair and get in line for the ride, and it says you have to be THIS TALL for the ride? It's the same concept. You have to be this thin to ride. It's just the standard I have. Is it unreasonable? Only if you're a fat girl that finds me interesting.

To be honest, as I get older, I'm having a more and more difficult time even being bothered to go out and date. I just don't see it having a good outcome. You go out, meet what you think is the girl of your dreams, get into a long term relationship with her, get married, have a couple kids, and live the life of the married man.

The problem with that is that I have friends going through this life, and all of them are having problems with it. 1 of my friends had his wife just up and leave on him. One day he came home and she was just vanished. He was left to fend for himself with his 3 sons for 9 months until she came back to explain what happened, and all she could tell him was that she was done, no explanation given. Keep in mind, this is a guy with a good job, doesn't have bad habits like gambling or excessive drinking, doesn't cheat, basically he did everything you're supposed to do. Doesn't matter, she left, and he was on the hook for child support after she successfully lobbied for joint custody, even after leaving him in the dust like that.

Another friend, early 30s, been married for about 10 years to a pretty smoking hot girl, and he himself is a good looking guy who works out and all of that. Granted, I'm not in his shoes, but from the outside looking in, it was the perfect married life. An ideal for me to look to and strive for. Dude had his own plumbing business making good money, she worked in a doctor's office, and they had 2 kids, a good house, lots of toys like jet skis, etc. It looked idyllic! Last year, she decides to blow up the marriage and cheats on him with some dude. The reason given? After talking to her it boiled down to: "I was bored." My friend did everything right, and what will that get him? Back on the dating market, but also stuck with the responsibilities of raising his kids, child support payments, and dealing with the machinations of his ex to fuck up his life.

And that's just 2 stories, there are others and that's just in my own circle of friends. These 2 friends also make way more money than I do, and are better looking in the second guy's case. So what hope do I have of coming out better than they do? The stats say that over 50% of marriages end in divorce these days. More than 70% of those divorces are initiated by the woman. The odds in the game of blackjack are 52% against you if you play everything perfectly, and Vegas makes a killing in blackjack all the time. Why should I play those odds, what is my incentive? It's all very disheartening.

You have a lot of beta faggots for friends

Lightning Lord Rule · Sep 12, 2014

Phazael_sl said:
Not to belittle your friend's situation, as divorce is devastating, but I am guessing there is more to the story than you are dropping or you would not have deflected into this "reasonable expectations" arc of treating marriage like a business transaction. Khane is right; that fatalistic cynical view is a shitty way to live and people who marry later in life tend to have much more solid and fulfilling marriages.

This particular thing about a "business transaction" has me curious. Do you think that a man has any reasonable expectations in a marriage? Is he, or should he, be entitled to anything while in a marriage? If you answer no to this, and he has no expectation of benefits to him, then what is his incentive to marry? If a marriage can be blown up due to no fault of his own, (ie boredom) and then he is on the hook financially through child support and alimony, why would he expose himself to that kind of risk?

Phazael · Sep 12, 2014

Lightning Lord Rule_sl said:
This particular thing about a "business transaction" has me curious. Do you think that a man has any reasonable expectations in a marriage? Is he, or should he, be entitled to anything while in a marriage? If you answer no to this, and he has no expectation of benefits to him, then what is his incentive to marry? If a marriage can be blown up due to no fault of his own, (ie boredom) and then he is on the hook financially through child support and alimony, why would he expose himself to that kind of risk?

Honest no bullshit answer?
First off let me preface this by saying that everyone's idea of marriage is different and that most marriages are different. I am an atheist, social liberal, fiscal conservative, white, nerd, with a music background who works in IT. My experiences are going to be a shit ton different than WASP guy or third generation Mormon dude. /disclaimer

No. You don't marry for expectations of benefits. You marry because you value another person more than yourself and you are making a commitment to them. It is a demonstration of commitment, love, sacrifice, and respect. I do not comprehend the barter like discussion of marriage I have seen people have here demonstrate. But then again, I am actively communicating with my wife and making sure she is as happy and not just content. While I am not saying "boredom" is a good enough excuse to throw out a marriage, tossing a roof over a woman's head and meeting "expectations" is the marital equivalent of punching a time clock at work. A good marriage, like anything in life, is a constant work in progress that takes effort from all involved. It is not an exchange of goods and services where you check off boxes on a list and assume everything is fine. In fact, selfish/shallow people should never get married ever, because it requires people to put someone else ahead of themselves. Some people just lack the empathy to do that, at any point in their lives.

But sometimes marriages just end. People change over time. Shit happens. I understand that. But if she went out and banged some dude before communicating this to your friend, well then either he did something wrong you are not privy to or he didn't know her that well in the first place. Or she had a harpy circle of shallow cunts that helped her rationalize that this was an acceptable exit strategy, in which case we are back to him not paying enough attention. Either way, there is obviously more to that situation.

Phazael · Sep 12, 2014

Anyhow, I am done with this thread for the day. I have to go be a Betafag and deliver some flowers to my wife at work so she feels appreciated and doesn't end up a used up whore who cuckholds me. Or maybe I am just a nice guy who gives a shit about his wife beyond throwing a load into her every once in a while. a_skeleton_03, start a poll!

Erronius · Sep 12, 2014

Phazael_sl said:
By the way, when do we get to see what a real alpha he man pussy slayer looks like? I am curious to see this mythical unicorn of manliness and how we all measure up to you guys.

Like any legit 'alpha male' would bother to post about themselves on the Internet.

dak · Sep 12, 2014

I'm pretty sure 90% of redpillangst is a product of interacting with bitches on online dating sites.

Araysar · Sep 12, 2014

Had a date with a beautiful girl the other day, really hit it off, was just my hilarious charming self, didnt have to be a RP dick about it.

Phazael · Sep 12, 2014

Well that is because Russian men naturally radiate a swarthy musk of bear scent and testosterone that drives ovulating woman crazy. I mean, why else would a woman you were nice to be nice to you back?

Araysar · Sep 12, 2014

i gave her the ole' commie razzle dazzle

Lightning Lord Rule · Sep 12, 2014

Phazael_sl said:
You marry because you value another person more than yourself and you are making a commitment to them. It is a demonstration of commitment, love, sacrifice, and respect.

So don't you think it would reasonable to have these qualities mentioned here returned to you in kind by your wife? If you didn't have them returned, in time wouldn't you feel differently? If your wife lost all respect for you, say, if you lost your job, yet you still had respect for her, wouldn't that affect things?

My point is, the reasonable expectations don't have to be material things, or quantifiable things like how often you're having sex. You have a reasonable expectation to be loved at least, right? Otherwise, why be married to someone who doesn't return your feelings?

While I am not saying "boredom" is a good enough excuse to throw out a marriage, tossing a roof over a woman's head and meeting "expectations" is the marital equivalent of punching a time clock at work. A good marriage, like anything in life, is a constant work in progress that takes effort from all involved. It is not an exchange of goods and services where you check off boxes on a list and assume everything is fine. In fact, selfish/shallow people should never get married ever, because it requires people to put someone else ahead of themselves. Some people just lack the empathy to do that, at any point in their lives.

On one hand you accuse other people of lacking empathy, then you dismiss my friends as shallow cunts just for associating with me, who expressed what you consider to be a shallow viewpoint. The amount of cognitive dissonance and hate on display is unsurprising.

But sometimes marriages just end. People change over time. Shit happens. I understand that. But if she went out and banged some dude before communicating this to your friend, well then either he did something wrong you are not privy to or he didn't know her that well in the first place. Or she had a harpy circle of shallow cunts that helped her rationalize that this was an acceptable exit strategy, in which case we are back to him not paying enough attention. Either way, there is obviously more to that situation.

So no matter what happened, the man was to blame. Got it. Even if he does everything right, it's his fault for not seeing what she was doing, and not seeing her for what she was. This too is unsurprising, it's what we're all conditioned to believe.

I don't wish divorce on anyone, but if it happens to you or one of your friends, remember your words now.

Dumar_sl · Sep 12, 2014

Lithose_sl said:
Now, given, as Dumar mentioned--the nature of that debate was different.

I don't recall all the details (& I quite enjoyed that one; need to go back and re-read). Suffice it to say, it is backwards or downwards causation because the very apparatuses that make up consciousness (at a high level: brain, nervous system, etc) can beaffectedby that very consciousness they together as a system create. It doesn't necessarily alter the particles (and therefore reality), but it alters the generation or lack thereof of them. So other than simple hot girlfriend example, if you're in a prolonged deep depression, that conscious experience can affect other things, like causing hypertension or a heart attack (or generally, a shorter life span). That was my point.

But that's rather different than here. I encourage everyone to go (re-)read my longer post carefully, as it gives a good description of what's really going on without any religious word usage. It's really simple, guys: all the research, all the data you can look at suggests to us that women (and men)do notchoose mates based on rational thought; that is, they don't sit & compare guy to guy, this one is more kind, considerate, charming, successful, cultured, etc. Guys don't say this woman can cook amazing, is understanding, supportive, likes football, etc. Some of that may bepositive aspectsof a relationship absolutely, but theydo notform the core, the foundation of why the relationship exists in the first place: that is carnal attraction, sex. Limbic response (I am using it correctly) is purely an evolutionary agency that's driven by attractors that we see in those studies, especially when women are ovulating.

Only whena woman cannot secure for herself the attraction of what she perceives, through that agency, as the highest males she can, does she then set her script on those qualities that rationalism would lead her to. Her euphemism for this is 'I've matured.' Well yes, you have: but not just mentally, butphysicallybeyond maturation, and that's the problem with that line. This is where RP is most useful: it's telling you tonotsettle for this arrangement.

Phazael_sl said:
But sometimes marriages just end. People change over time. Shit happens. I understand that.But if she went out and banged some dude before communicating this to your friend, well then either he did something wrong you are not privy to or he didn't know her that well in the first place.Or she had a harpy circle of shallow cunts that helped her rationalize that this was an acceptable exit strategy, in which case we are back tohim not paying enough attention.Either way, there is obviously more to that situation.

Everyone here read these words. Read them? Good, read them again. Then again.

This ispreciselywhy RP exists. Because of this.

Haast · Sep 12, 2014

Dumar_sl said:
Dumar gonna Dumar

What's the diagnosis, Dr Lexus?

Phazael · Sep 12, 2014

Lightning Lord Rule_sl said:
Master class on moving goal posts and straw men.

That is not what I am saying and you know it. I am not going to waste time on restating things, but the short version is this: If appearance is a deal breaker for you, then likely is for your friends. They are not shallow cunts for associating with you, but rather they are likely shallow because you clearly are. Birds of a feather and all that. First words of your description (and really only) of his wife centered on her appearance. That says a lot about where your priorities are. Unless you are that lonely asshole friend that he keeps around out of pity or obligation, I am guessing that you and your friends share similar values. Even if you were taking his side unreasonably, you could have led off with something like "she was a shitty mother" or "she nagged him and didn't let him have any fun." or something similar. Instead, the first words out of your mouth about here were "smoking hottie" instead of some personal detail that might have painted a better picture of what went wrong. You are in your own words, though not directly, a shallow person who only really cares about getting laid occasionally. Why would you even think you really know how long term relationships work with that outlook? You have no personal frame of reference. It would be like me talking about dieting. No one would take me seriously, either.

Believe me, I know women can be nutty bitches and he was REALLY dumb for getting married before 30, statistically (real science, not RP made up shit) speaking. I am sure she has a chunk of blame in this and there is no excuse for fucking around on your significant other. But it is as plain as day to anyone with an ounce of objectivity that there is more to this story than what you have related. And men fuck up and cheat plenty. Reread my post. I didn't paint her in glowing terms, either, by a long shot. In all likelihood, there is probably some blame to go around on both sides, but if he married based on "smoking hottie", then he has to own that shit and realize that this sort of thing was probably going to happen.

The disconnect here is that you think you should expect something for being nice and this somehow represents how normal people view relationships. Do you keep a fucking score card on who did the most favors between you and your friends? If you do, I submit that they are not really your friends but more likeminded people you keep around as company. If not, then why in the hell would you treat your wife in that manner? What you are talking about is not marriage, but mail order bride behavior.

Dumar_sl · Sep 12, 2014

He described her that way because he should: the level of attractiveness of a woman is the most important thing to a man, whether it's a hookup, LTR, or marriage - everything else is a bonus. Sorry, that's reality. I realize itshouldn'tbe that way in idealistic terms, but life's gonna life, bro.

Some blame to go around on both sides because she cheated. Lol. Pleasefixyourself.

Red Pill Thread 2.0: Neckbeard Revenge

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