Red Pill Thread 2.0: Neckbeard Revenge

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Antarius

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,828
15
Height / weight? Do you shave daily? Do you exercise?

Look man, I'm not trying to be an asshole. My point is that the men who subscribe to this shit have some issues to work through and those issues are glaringly obvious to most people.

So, are you a 5 chasing 9s and bitter that they treat you poorly?
No, I'm a 6 in terms of looks, slowly improving via eating healthier and working out daily. I figure if I can get down to 10% bodyfat I could be up at a 7 in terms of physical attractiveness, which is one of the most important factors in dating, my face isn't "bad" but it's asymmetrical, but the fact that I'm fat is the bigger problem. I don't shave daily, I grow a pretty nice beard and I keep it trimmed. I am in the top 10% of wage earners in this country, which helps me attract women, but I don't have very many friends which hurts.

I've gone for and fucked everything between a 3 and a 9. I've slept with over 75 women at this point, I don't know the exact number, I don't really care. I was a virgin until I was 26. I'm 32 now. My longest relationship was 16 months, I was faithful for "most" of it. She got pregnant despite being "on the pill", I consider it a bullet dodged.
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Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,375
23,796
You guys over-complicate and vilify the red pill shit too much. Part of the problem is Dumar is a poor ambassador of it and is very vocal about it.

All it is, is an answer for why nice guys get shit on in relationships and an ideology on how to be attractive to women. I'm pretty sure the ideas we told Aamima years ago predate the usage of 'the red pill' to describe how to act around women but are very similar. It's not even misogynistic or even manipulative, it's a blessing to women because they want an attractive man in the same way we want an attractive woman. The publications for women to be more attractive and understand male attraction is a huge industry, but men are way behind and only have the red pill bullshit, its predecessors and derivatives. The person in this thread who said it could be summed up as 'be masculine' is pretty much right, but masculinity with regard to relationships can be difficult to define.
The problem is that it's super fucking unbelievably off-the-charts level hypocritical.

It's trying to make a moral crusade out of being a typical bachelor, justifying it with pseudo-science, and then when THEY settle down they expect the women they settle down with to be submissive/subservient.

The problem with the red pill is it's *not* new, it's just a bullshit way around nostalgia for some better time when male/female relationships were less complicated. Hint: they were less complicated because one half of the equation was treated as unequal, and therefore there was never a need to balance the equation. It's pretty easy to solve for X when X is forced to be whatever Y wants it to be.
 

Dumar_sl

shitlord
3,712
4
While part of what you say is correct, and most people will not advocate a return to an older social order (you will find some crazies, yes) full unconstrained hypergamy (the opposite) is not healthy either. Society curtails open masculinity through its narratives and instillation of certain cultural values. The same needs to happen for femininity and women. There is no longer any societal stigma for slutting it up, for example, and women are absolved of any responsibility when they do.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,796
8,163
No, I'm a 6 in terms of looks, slowly improving via eating healthier and working out daily. I figure if I can get down to 10% bodyfat I could be up at a 7 in terms of physical attractiveness, which is one of the most important factors in dating, my face isn't "bad" but it's asymmetrical, but the fact that I'm fat is the bigger problem. I don't shave daily, I grow a pretty nice beard and I keep it trimmed. I am in the top 10% of wage earners in this country, which helps me attract women, but I don't have very many friends which hurts.

I've gone for and fucked everything between a 3 and a 9. I've slept with over 75 women at this point, I don't know the exact number, I don't really care. I was a virgin until I was 26. I'm 32 now. My longest relationship was 16 months, I was faithful for "most" of it. She got pregnant despite being "on the pill", I consider it a bullet dodged.
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For what it's worth, I think scoring yourself at a 6 is a bit harsh. No homo.

I'd put you at a 7-7.5, even with the extra weight around your midsection. You've got a very above average hairline, jaw/mouth region, well proportioned neck/traps. Can't tell for sure, but your nose looks good, and it looks like you've got a nice eye shade, broad shoulders, good haircut... looks like you are above average height... You need a facial and to hit the gym but aside from that it looks like you keep your shit in order. Lose 25lbs and go to a spa for a scrub & tan and you'll hit an 8.5 no problem.

Is it possible that *gasp* maybe what these RedPillers really lack is self confidence?
 

khalid

Unelected Mod
14,071
6,775
The problem is that it's super fucking unbelievably off-the-charts level hypocritical.

It's trying to make a moral crusade out of being a typical bachelor, justifying it with pseudo-science, and then when THEY settle down they expect the women they settle down with to be submissive/subservient.

The problem with the red pill is it's *not* new, it's just a bullshit way around nostalgia for some better time when male/female relationships were less complicated. Hint: they were less complicated because one half of the equation was treated as unequal, and therefore there was never a need to balance the equation. It's pretty easy to solve for X when X is forced to be whatever Y wants it to be.
This.
 

Antarius

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,828
15
It's pretty easy to solve for X when X is forced to be whatever Y wants it to be.
Now that X is in a position of power, X straight up lies to, manipulates, and abuses men to get the best they are capable of while the MAJORITY of men are left unhappy. The red pill is just a good way of teaching men how to reclaim happiness.

Hypergamy doesn't care how great a Father you are to your kids.

Hypergamy doesn't care how you rearranged your college majors and career choice in life to better accommodate her.

Hypergamy doesn't care how inspired or fulfilled you feel as a stay-at-home Dad.

Hypergamy doesn't care that you moved across 4 states to be closer to your LDR.

Hypergamy doesn't care how 'supportive' you've always been of her decisions or if you identify as a 'male feminist'.

Hypergamy doesn't care about the sincerity of your religious convictions or aspirations of high purpose.

Hypergamy doesn't care about those words you said at your wedding.

Hypergamy doesn't care about how you funded her going back to college to find a more rewarding career.

Hypergamy doesn't care how great a guy you are for adopting the children she had with other men.

Hypergamy doesn't care about your divine and forgiving nature in excusing her "youthful indiscretions."

Hypergamy doesn't care about your magnanimity in assuming responsibility for her student loans, and credit card debt after you're married.

Hypergamy doesn't care if "he was your best friend."

Hypergamy doesn't care about the coffee in bed you bring her or how great a cook you are.

Hypergamy doesn't care about all those chick flicks you sat through with her and claimed to like.

Hypergamy doesn't care about how well you do your part of the household chores.

Hypergamy doesn't care about how much her family or friends like you.

Hypergamy doesn't care if you think you're a "Good" guy or about how convincing your argument is for your sense of honor.

Hypergamy doesn't care whether the children are biologically yours or not.

Hypergamy doesn't care if "she was drunk, he was cute, and one thing led to another,.."

Hypergamy doesn't care how sweet, funny or intellectual you are.

Hypergamy doesn't care if you "never saw it coming."
 

Antarius

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,828
15
looks like you are above average height...
Nope, I'm only 5'8, I lie on my dating profile and put 5'9 because statistically that's where the majority of women cut off their search results and refuse to look lower. If I was 5'11" I would rate myself as a 7 working on 8. My brothers are 6'1, 6'0, and 6'3" Trust me, I'm well aware of the differences a few inches makes.

Yes, I'm well aware that most women can't tell the differences, as long as you're taller than she is, it doesn't matter, etc. And even at 5'8" I'm statistically taller than 95% of women, so I don't let it bother me too much, but it does have to factor into my evaluation.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,796
8,163
Nope, I'm only 5'8, I lie on my dating profile and put 5'9 because statistically that's where the majority of women cut off their search results and refuse to look lower. If I was 5'11" I would rate myself as a 7 working on 8. My brothers are 6'1, 6'0, and 6'3" Trust me, I'm well aware of the differences a few inches makes.
Fair enough
 

Antarius

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,828
15
You guys over-complicate and vilify the red pill shit too much. Part of the problem is Dumar is a poor ambassador of it and is very vocal about it.

All it is, is an answer for why nice guys get shit on in relationships and an ideology on how to be attractive to women. I'm pretty sure the ideas we told Aamima years ago predate the usage of 'the red pill' to describe how to act around women but are very similar. It's not even misogynistic or even manipulative, it's a blessing to women because they want an attractive man in the same way we want an attractive woman. The publications for women to be more attractive and understand male attraction is a huge industry, but men are way behind and only have the red pill bullshit, its predecessors and derivatives. The person in this thread who said it could be summed up as 'be masculine' is pretty much right, but masculinity with regard to relationships can be difficult to define.
Tuco is 100% correct. I learned a lot of shit from the PUA movement 6-7 years ago, and TGTBYHT has been red pill for the last 8 years, long before there was a term for it, and I'm learning how to make myself even better via the red pill now. I wish I had learned a lot of this stuff in my youth, but I was a little shy and into video games, mostly just casually, but that was more than enough, nowadays I'd just be considered your average dudebro stuck playing CoD with friends every night, but back 20 years ago, it made me a social pariah.

And yes, I was a nice guy in the relationships that I would form, thanks to skills I learned via PUA teachings and I would get shit on, or I would intentionally pick crazy/ugly women to have relationships with because I didn't know better. TRP does help with that.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Gold Donor>
31,375
23,796
Now that X is in a position of power, X straight up lies to, manipulates, and abuses men to get the best they are capable of while the MAJORITY of men are left unhappy. The red pill is just a good way of teaching men how to reclaim happiness.
Happiness in the way that most people understand the term is mostly a product of ignorance. Shooting for happy is stupid.

That's why when all those studies that come back showing that increasing gender equality has resulted in lowered happiness for women, intelligent women are not particularly concerned. Anyone can be happy if they just stick their head in the sand.

The things to be concerned with in life are: satisfaction, respect and freedom, and respect and freedom can really just be condensed into power, because it's impossible to be respected and impossible to feel free if you don't have power.

So that leaves us with satisfaction and power.

We know what power is: The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must.

So what needs to be explained is satisfaction. Satisfaction is substantially different from happiness in that happiness is just an empty feeling of joy while satisfaction is a full feeling of contentment. It's a feeling that comes from accomplishing a life that's worth living, rather than just accepting a life that's lacking in suffering.

So all you have to do is go out and lead a life worth living and the rest will just fucking come to you without having to subscribe to some bullshit ideology.
 

Phazael

Confirmed Beta Shitlord, Fat Bastard
<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
14,767
31,884
But it all comes back to: Red Pill/PUA is a good way to get laid, but a shitty way to build a meaningful relationship. That's my major criticism of it (and the comic book nerd levels of defense that certain people jump to for it). I am a 4 on my BEST day, but my wit and humor helps me jump up a few rungs. In my most desperate pre marital era I would not have embraced that shit because transient boning is maybe a slight step above jerking off, with jerking off being a lot less labor intensive for the payoff. I could have been bitter and played that shit to net flawed women (perhaps I did on occasion), but it would not have gotten me the wife and happiness I now have. It is a short term fix, at best, that demeans the women it manipulates and keeps the men that follow it from really progressing their lives. The only real value it provides is a short term plan for a guy on the rebound to nab some skanks to build some self esteem and get his house back in order. The average normal dude has nothing to gain from that shit.
 

Big Phoenix

Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
<Gold Donor>
46,668
99,501
No, I'm a 6 in terms of looks, slowly improving via eating healthier and working out daily. I figure if I can get down to 10% bodyfat I could be up at a 7 in terms of physical attractiveness, which is one of the most important factors in dating, my face isn't "bad" but it's asymmetrical, but the fact that I'm fat is the bigger problem. I don't shave daily, I grow a pretty nice beard and I keep it trimmed. I am in the top 10% of wage earners in this country, which helps me attract women, but I don't have very many friends which hurts.

I've gone for and fucked everything between a 3 and a 9. I've slept with over 75 women at this point, I don't know the exact number, I don't really care. I was a virgin until I was 26. I'm 32 now.My longest relationship was 16 months, I was faithful for "most" of it. She got pregnant despite being "on the pill", I consider it a bullet dodged.
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Lol no fucking wonder you have some screwed up ideas on sex and women. Get the fuck over yourself.
 

Antarius

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,828
15
The question was asked, "what type of man can benefit from red pill teaching, you must be a fedora wearing autistic neckbeard to believe any of it"... I posted one example, myself, as someone that has benefited from it. I trim my neckbeard, and when asked to put up or shut up, I deliver the goods.

Yes, I lost my virginity thanks to TGTBYHT, and the red-pill esque advice I was given years and years ago on foh. I have no problem advocating for it now. I learned the lesson late in life.

I do know, that as of recently as 4 months ago, I was a stereotypical beta bucks provider, and when I saw warning signs that shit was getting bad (ie: she stopped providing sex, she was never very dirty for me ie: refused blowjobs or anal). I might have winded up as a forehead kissing aamina, hopefully other people might learn it sooner.
Forgive me for belaboring the point, but there are no accidental mothers. Consider fertility statistics and that it takes a considerable amount of negligence for a woman to miss several pills on a regular basis to 'accidentally' become pregnant. One could also argue that even a couple engaging in condom-less sex could still be relatively confident that a woman wont get pregnant even if she's missed several pills regularly. Again my point being that it takes effort to become pregnant. Even without any birth control at all and timing my wife's ovulation cycles for our sex it took us 4 months to conceive our daughter. This is why I laugh at the accidental pregnancy excuse so common these days. If a woman wants to become pregnant she can do so with impunity and contrive any excuse she'd like about accidents, but the guy is an 'idiot' for not wearing a condom and taking responsibility for his actions, even if he's led to believe she's taking control of her contraception. Yet he is the one penalized both financially and socially because of her choice.
I am 100% confident that my last relationship, she tried to lock me down, when I wasn't ready, by fucking up her birth control, because she wanted a provider to take care of her and her bastard son. I was proactively cuckolded, another man got the best of that woman, and I was responsible for the mess that was left over. I didn't realize "why" I felt so bad about the relationship, but the red pill helped provide a voice to my thoughts.
 

Azrayne

Irenicus did nothing wrong
2,161
786
The way I see this PUA > red pill stuff, it's basically cause and effect. Any guy born after the mid - late 70's was raised on the idea via mainstream media that to get the girl you wanted to get, all you had to do was be really nice to her, be a really good friend to her, help her out whenever she needs it, and most of all "be yourself"and one day she'll realize she's in love with you. Why every piece of pop culture post 1980 picked up on this idea, I have no fucking clue, but they did, and so you got a couple generations of guys who were doing the exact opposite of what they had to do to attract the woman they want. I'm sure climbing divorce rates leaving a lot of guys without enough access to a decent father figure didn't help either. Not to mention feminism and it's various toxic narratives about gender relations. But it's the media, more than anything else, which was the real problem I think. A generation raised on movies and TV shows where the quiet nice guy gets the girl over her jerk athlete boyfriend, despite the fact that nothing changed about him to make her more attracted to him than she started out. She just changes her mind so they can live happily ever after, because that's what the plot demands.

Then these guys, they hit 16, 18, or 21, or 25, (the age depends on their intellect and general gullibility) and they're not getting laid, and they're not getting relationships, they realize that they were raised on bullshit, that the way they were taught to attract women is totally ineffective. And so they get really fucking pissed off. Of course they did, they'd been lied to their whole lives and it ruined their chance at a healthy sex life/relationship. If instead of shoving bullshit down their throat, the media had told boys that the best way to get what you want in terms of sex and relationships is to be healthy, fit, reasonably well groomed and dressed, confident, interesting and living a life of some kind of purpose, then PUA/Red Pill would never have occurred.

But it did. And yeah, because these guys were angry, a lot of sexist (and ultimately self destructive) crap got into the whole ideology, especially with the PUA movement (which for the record - not a fan of. Not really a fan of a huge part of the Red Pill stuff either, although the basic self improvement stuff I can get behind). If you were raised in a culture that told you that you'd achieve happy relationships if you would just 'be yourself' and 'be nice,' then you did exactly that and you got absolutely nothing, of course you'd blame the women. After all, you're doing everything you were told to do, but the women are still ignoring you, so if you don't have the intelligence and self awareness to examine the media message, then you're going to think the fault is at their end.

I've seen a lot of guys go through it, they think they'll teach themselves the right techniques like it's a manual and then they'll be drowning in pussy. But it only works (ie, leads to a satisfying outcome) for a minority. Most either realize that a life of meaningless promiscuity gained through memorized lines and fake personas is only marginally more satisfying than what they had previously, or just don't have what it takes in terms of confidence and lifestyle to pull it off.

Then Red Pill evolved, which was basically, in theory, what was missing from the PUA movement - a breakdown of why men were having such a horrible time attracting women and the changes they needed to make to themselves to fix it and reach a satisfying sex life/relationship, as opposed to mind games and rote memorized lines to sleep with dumb bar chicks. Problem is that a lot of that anger is still there, and a lot of that PUA idea that it's all about techniques and control, instead of developing yourself into someone that women want to be with, so it ends up with some good advice for men who aren't getting what they want in terms of sex/relationships, but it also ends up with a lot of misleading advice which is going to lead them to developing attitudes that will ultimately work against them (although not as bad as PUA in that regard), or attracting the kind of women who fall for the manipulative crap - who aren't the kind of women you want to be with anyway.
 

Antarius

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,828
15
sage wisdom
Right, it wasn't so much the "not getting laid" part that I minded, it's that I wasn't getting relationships either. I thought, oh, well girls only will have 1 night stands with asshole jerks, but if I'm nice, at least they'll consider me boyfriend material... NOPE, that's not the way the world works. I remember distinctly going to both my 6'3" older brother (stereotypical druggy loser, 35 and can't hold a steady job, but JESUS did he ALWAYS have a hotass girlfriend 16-30) and my mother about why I couldn't get a girlfriend around the age of 14, they both told me to "just be myself", "it's easy, just be natural". So if I was doing eveything I was supposed to, I thought maybe there is just something wrong with me, maybe I'm actually gay, maybe I'm just so unattractive that women would never consider fucking me... NOPE. I was winding up in the friendzone so many times, and then I basically just gave up from about 21-25 before PUA started hitting it big.

Yes, there was a lot of anger, but depression was even worse than the anger, I considered suicide many times around the age of 24-25, might as well take myself out of the world if I'm so fucked up.
 

Khane

Got something right about marriage
20,518
14,245
Tuco is 100% correct. I learned a lot of shit from the PUA movement 6-7 years ago, and TGTBYHT has been red pill for the last 8 years, long before there was a term for it, and I'm learning how to make myself even better via the red pill now. I wish I had learned a lot of this stuff in my youth, but I was a little shy and into video games, mostly just casually, but that was more than enough, nowadays I'd just be considered your average dudebro stuck playing CoD with friends every night, but back 20 years ago, it made me a social pariah.

And yes, I was a nice guy in the relationships that I would form, thanks to skills I learned via PUA teachings and I would get shit on, or I would intentionally pick crazy/ugly women to have relationships with because I didn't know better. TRP does help with that.
Tuco is not even close to 100% correct. It may have started out that way but it has become completely bastardized to the point of being so laughable you may as well compare it to the little rascals he-man woman haters club. It lumps ALL women into one category and all men into another, single category. It pretends everyone is the same and every relationship will only ever end in a woman walking out or cuckolding unless you do things like "hold frame". It's completely detrimental to the "nice guys" reading it.

These so called "nice guys" need to realize that they aren't actually nice. They are pretty fucking jaded and actually fairly mean. They just have no backbone so they only vent on the internet and in person they are pin cushions. Sure, the philosophy can help them but the message is really, really bad. Women aren't worth having an actual, loving relationship with because in the end they are hypergamous. And what's worse, if they try the red pill bullshit and fail they have a chance of becoming completely psychotic like that kid a few months back who killed all those women then turned the gun on himself. Go read the /r/redpill forum some time. It's an awful cesspool of losers. I've said it before, the problem isn't women. The red pillers aren't some awesome group of guys who have tons of guy friends but it's just the women that are the problem. They have no male friends either. They aren't likeable people and they are incapable of having a real human relationship with anyone. And now they've found a place to band together and spread an awful message that's based on actual scientific studies but cherry picked so badly and twisted so entirely that the original studies it's based on have lost all meaning and context in regard to the audience of red pill.
 

Tuco

I got Tuco'd!
<Gold Donor>
47,818
82,241
Khane is probably right. I really can't speak to how redpill nerds act and treat women, and how the movement may have changed from, "How to truly be the best man for your woman" to "How to manipulate these weak female minds in order to make them subservient.". There's probably a lot of different ideologies packed into redpill thinking, much of which are foolish, immoral, misogynistic and bullshit.

But much of the foundational ideas they are built upon make a lot of sense. Women want men, not servants. I don't really pay attention to it because I'm in a strong and happy marriage but I imagine it's just like any other movement, just because there's a bunch of assholes piling into it doesn't change the truth of the message. It does make it harder to advocate or describe the message. I think what you see in this thread is that the anti-redpill folk are arguing against the redpill misogynists, and the pro-redpill folk are arguing for the ideas behind it which are very different.