Rings of Power: Tolkien's Shambling Skinsuit

Khalan said:

I think people are overreacting to the sjw/casting shit( Not sure what I expected on FOH) . Like let the first few eps air and if it's full of woke shit then sure, but I don't think it's inherently bad they wanted a diverse cast? Like if the writing is good, the characters are good and it looks great. Who the fuck cares if it's not historically accurate.

I really enjoyed the witcher series and some of the characters were not the same as the books/games but overall it was a good enjoyable show. I am just glad to be getting more stuff like this and cool shows vs More reality TV and garbage. Lets just hope they dont Wheel of time it.

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Sure, sure, but it's a huge red flag. And not because the meanie guys on the FoH would rather see a bad show with white cast than a good show with a black cast. It's a red flag because it shows they aren't simply hyper focused on making the best show possible but instead are focusing on a bunch of shit that doesn't directly improve the quality of the show.

But can't they both focus on making the best show and diversifying the cast (or other external social messaging)? No. Recent history has shown it's hard enough just making a good show. So intentionally introducing distractions or external agendas doesn't bode well.

Witcher was good. Could it have been great, though, without a writing staff that was obviously distracted by things other than than writing the best possible show? We may never know, but at some point it seems like a worrisome trend.

It's very hard writing or creating something great when hyper focused on that task. It becomes nearly impossible with writers and producers who think they're so skilled they can expend time and energy with other, tangential or external distractions or agendas.

Most of the critics of sjw social messaging are so because we just want great shows, not good enough considering they distracted themselves. And the social signalling is a sign they're not focused on making a great show.

zignor 4 said:

"Basic biology" in a fantasy world that contains walking, talking trees. Okay.

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This is always the go to arguments of people so retarded they can barely manage to consume entertainment, much less understand how to craft it.

It's a fantasy world so there are no rules? Nevermind the immense time and effort every fantasy writer is required to spend creating and following rules for their world because it doesn't inherently have rules (edit: aside from human anchor points of course).

You can't just turn all hobbits into cgi screensaver flying toasters because it's a fantasy world. Of course retards and cucks would probably still defend it then jerk their boyfriend's feminine penis in celebration after feeling like they totally bashed those rube fascists on foh.

Of course, same terminally ill liberalism claims you can just call a man a woman and demand others start saying men can get pregnant, so why wouldn't they have such a shaky grasp on reality they think you can just do whatever for any reason just because a story is in the fantasy genre.

spronk said:

nice to see Bear McCreary get paid at least, he's worked on the soundtracks for bangers like BSG, Black Sails, Snowpiercer, Walking Dead, God of War

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Black Sails music slapped

popsicledeath said:

This is always the go to arguments of people so retarded they can barely manage to consume entertainment, much less understand how to craft it.

It's a fantasy world so there are no rules?

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Learn to read. I claimed no such thing. I responded to an explicit statement that connected "basic biology" to a world in which the term means something vastly different than it does in the real one.

But even if you limit whatever "basic biology" means in a wholly fantastical world to simple human biology and assume that it works in Middle Earth just like it does on real Earth, "black" people exist in Tolkien's universe in the form of Haradrim at a minimum. There's nothing explicitly stopping them from travelling, reproducing, breeding with whitey (and for that matter, other races entirely), or wandering into white towns to set up a Haitian smoke shop and hording all of the BBWs. Tolkien provides several examples of elves and humans boinking and producing offspring, FFS. Whatever real or imagined political motivations may or may not be in play, claiming that dark skinned people don't fit within the biological rules of the world simply makes no sense.

I'd be ok with Miriel if she were a queen-by-marriage sort of thing MAYBE. But she inherits, which means her whole bloodline is in question now. Elves are called the fair folk for a reason.

Even later in Gondor many nobles, with alot of popular support, revolted when a king married a northern woman. This turned into a ruinous war that spilt much of the best blood in the country.

The northern people weren't exactly mongrels either. They were tall and blonde and strong, though of course less than the Numenoreans.

Grizzlebeard said:

Anyone with a Prime membership (incl me) are clearly absorbing the cost of this mess since the sub is increasing for the first time in 8 years.

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The sub has increased twice since 2018, you've been paying for this for years by that logic.

Some of us still remember when it was $40 a year for students!

zignor 4 said:

Learn to read. I claimed no such thing. I responded to an explicit statement that connected "basic biology" to a world in which the term means something vastly different than it does in the real one.

But even if you limit whatever "basic biology" means in a wholly fantastical world to simple human biology and assume that it works in Middle Earth just like it does on real Earth, "black" people exist in Tolkien's universe in the form of Haradrim at a minimum. There's nothing explicitly stopping them from travelling, reproducing, breeding with whitey (and for that matter, other races entirely), or wandering into white towns to set up a Haitian smoke shop and hording all of the BBWs. Tolkien provides several examples of elves and humans boinking and producing offspring, FFS. Whatever real or imagined political motivations may or may not be in play, claiming that dark skinned people don't fit within the biological rules of the world simply makes no sense.

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Learn to read. I mentioned the hobbits, dwarves, and elves. If someone was from Harad, that would make sense. There is no Harad equivalent for the elves or dwarves or hobbits. Look at the Harfoots. The Harfoots are specific breed/subrace of hobbits. Why is just one black? Is he not a Harfoot? Is he some other kind of hobbit from the far South we've never heard of? Then why is he described as a Harfoot and not whatever new subrace he actually is? If he was the descendant of a black hobbit that had interbred with the Harfoots, he would no longer look black, but mixed, and less and less mixed the more generations you go down.

Drinsic said:

Learn to read. I mentioned the hobbits, dwarves, and elves.

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Not in the post that I responded to, which was itself in response to a general statement about "a diverse cast", which would also include the black human who has generated a lot of consternation here. You added your qualifiers later.

And again, elves and "men" were capable of breeding with each other, so by extension, elves and Haradrim should be perfectly capable of doing so from a biological standpoint. We know very little about the origins of Hobbits, but Tolkien himself implies that they are closely tied to men and could have potentially been an offshoot that eventually evolved into modern human beings (if we take the angle that all of this shit is essentially Tolkien's invented mythology for The English). And I'm not convinced that that female dorf thing is actually a dwarf. She doesn't even have a god damn beard. Hopefully a Balrog eats her.

zignor 4 said:

Learn to read. I claimed no such thing. I responded to an explicit statement that connected "basic biology" to a world in which the term means something vastly different than it does in the real one.

But even if you limit whatever "basic biology" means in a wholly fantastical world to simple human biology and assume that it works in Middle Earth just like it does on real Earth, "black" people exist in Tolkien's universe in the form of Haradrim at a minimum. There's nothing explicitly stopping them from travelling, reproducing, breeding with whitey (and for that matter, other races entirely), or wandering into white towns to set up a Haitian smoke shop and hording all of the BBWs. Tolkien provides several examples of elves and humans boinking and producing offspring, FFS. Whatever real or imagined political motivations may or may not be in play, claiming that dark skinned people don't fit within the biological rules of the world simply makes no sense.

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Tolkien has the capacity for black offspring, so it makes sense that existing characters described as fair skinned are suddenly cast as black to diversify the cast! And there could have been black hobbits, so just because there haven't been doesn't mean there shouldn't be random mix skin color hobbits! Because it's fantasy, bro!

And it wasn't an appeal for lotr to follow basic biology, it was an acknowledgement that lotr rules exist, and basic biology exists, and both are relevant and none of it supports the way this will be as good a production as possible being political actors trying to push their agenda into the show.

Keep in mind, you and the social justice crusaders are the ones fixated on skin tone. You're the ones acting like fucking elves are anglo Caucasians and it's racism to not have Latinx or Chinx elves.

Hey, good point, why aren't these social justice advocates ever forcing a ton of asian characters into these shows? Is it more about correcting the perceived white washing (of a fantasy world lol) by pushing blackness and not about diversity at all?

Those bigoted elves don't have a single dwarf in their race. Not even a midget! It's little person phobic and very problematic we don't have midget elves! And Tolkien had short races, so it makes perfect sense!

Elven - human marriages are a vague topic in the books. There are the recorded instances (3 I think?). Aragorn/Arwen, Idril/Tuor, Beren/Luthien. However it is hinted that the elves of edhellond sometimes mingled with the gondorians there. I can't remember where I am getting this from so I am probably wrong.

Outside the big 3 though, any mingling is going to result in mortal children. So there's really no way you are going to get darker skin from the elven side. Even evolutionary changes that might affect humans probably wouldn't affect elves, who have children very rarely and don't age.

Miriel would have to have southron human ancestry, and I don't think that would have gone down well with the nobles and populace.

Tarrant said:

The book it's based on is from 1926, it's clear there wouldn't be any racial coloring in it except white. If they want to throw in some pepper with that salt, I don't care personally. There's plenty of other (more valid IMO) things (most likely) to rip apart about this project as we watch it that will be much more valid complaints I'm sure.

Not saying anyone else shouldn't feel that way, I just personally don't understand it.

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I explained it. You're choosing to pretend you don't understand, I guess, so you can eye roll shit that explains the thing you don't understand? Why? So you can support social justice messaging being forced into a story that didn't need it, that that very distraction and effort is at the potential expense of the just focusing on making the best show possible.

I mean, I get it, some people are just sorta dumb and unaware. Try explaining the difference between the original Star Trek tackling ethical or societal questions and the modern shit to see how some people really are too dumb to consciously consume entertainment, much less understand the crafting of it.

popsicledeath said:

Tolkien has the capacity for black offspring, so it makes sense that existing characters described as fair skinned are suddenly cast as black to diversify the cast! And there could have been black hobbits, so just because there haven't been doesn't mean there shouldn't be random mix skin color hobbits! Because it's fantasy, bro!

And it wasn't an appeal for lotr to follow basic biology, it was an acknowledgement that lotr rules exist, and basic biology exists, and both are relevant and none of it supports the way this will be as good a production as possible being political actors trying to push their agenda into the show.

Keep in mind, you and the social justice crusaders are the ones fixated on skin tone. You're the ones acting like fucking elves are anglo Caucasians and it's racism to not have Latinx or Chinx elves.

Hey, good point, why aren't these social justice advocates ever forcing a ton of asian characters into these shows? Is it more about correcting the perceived white washing (of a fantasy world lol) by pushing blackness and not about diversity at all?

Those bigoted elves don't have a single dwarf in their race. Not even a midget! It's little person phobic and very problematic we don't have midget elves! And Tolkien had short races, so it makes perfect sense!

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Umm, I don't know who you have me all twisted up with, but I am not advocating for any of this. I'm simply saying that, based on what I've seen of it so far, I largely don't care. I've said several times that I expect the show to suck for reasons outside of diversity casting.

Both of these things can be true at once:

1) This show is written / produced by a gaggle of god-tier SJWs and the show will be awful for it.

2) Tolkien's writings do not disallow dark-skinned elves/men/dwarves/harfoots (or whatever the fuck they are).

zignor 4 said:

1) This show is written / produced by a gaggle of god-tier SJWs and the show will be awful for it.

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Actually it's produced by nobodies with no industry credits

Khalan said:

Also like, they are making up 90% of the story since tolkien didn't really write this. So if you are upset at a casting choice be just as upset the show even exists as it is taking a LOT of liberties. I mean I don't remember the lines in the trailer in the books, do you?

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I have a feeling you ha e not read the relevant books which give a very solid view of the world during that time, or the book which set a very detailed foundation for the series itself. There is no reason not to follow the basic setting that Tolkien setup in Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, unless it is to make a story their own.

You're right though, we'll just have to wait and see how much they change.

Kharzette said:

Elven - human marriages are a vague topic in the books. There are the recorded instances (3 I think?). Aragorn/Arwen, Idril/Tuor, Beren/Luthien. However it is hinted that the elves of edhellond sometimes mingled with the gondorians there. I can't remember where I am getting this from so I am probably wrong.

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A true nerd would have mentioned the far more significant union of Earendil and Elwing, even if neither one was an elf or a human.

Zindan said:

I have a feeling you ha e not read the relevant books which give a very solid view of the world during that time, or the book which set a very detailed foundation for the series itself. There is no reason not to follow the basic setting that Tolkien setup in Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales, unless it is to make a story their own.

You're right though, we'll just have to wait and see how much they change.

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You have to read between the lines on this one. Promotional articles and first-look exclusives with official Amazon talking points say the show is only inspired by Tolkien, not based on.

They've gone back and forth on it. But in the serious promotional articles they lean more toward "inspired by". They're playing both sides.

There's video coverage of the article some pages ago.

Elves can't be dark no (see above). The rest sure. The word elf literally means white being. D&D had dark elves though! And of course EQ.

Really though the importance of bloodlines wasn't about skin colour. It was about drifting further from the divine. Faramir knew his own history well and when he tells Frodo about the decline of Gondor, it really reminded me of what Herodotus had to say about the Atlanteans.

Gavinmad said:

A true nerd would have mentioned the far more significant union of Earendil and Elwing, even if neither one was an elf or a human.

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Oops, is that 4? I could have cheated and googled I guess