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Palum

what Suineg set it to
26,726
41,867
Steam trains produce white "smoke" you fucking retard because they produce steam. And steam is white. Because steam isn't "smoke", steam is water vapor.
just-sit-down-and-ill-explain-everything-let-me-explain.gif


Not quite so fast.

Steam engines exhaust their combustion gasses through the smoke stack. That's why it's called that, used steam is used for many purposes and is not simply through the stack (superheater, compound cylinders, whistle, blow down valves, etc.). If the fireman is properly tending the fire in a modern steam locomotive, the exhaust steam used to create a firebox draft (which pulls any smoke through the boiler flues) will be the primary visible gas and since it is wet and condensing at this point is white.

However, a few problems with this generalization. First, smoke is always present as a byproduct of combustion, even if it can be consumed by the fire itself in ideal conditions.

Secondly, older engines without stokers and better firebox management tools are much harder too keep clean burning or burn hot enough all the time. Wheel slip, grade changes, etc. can pull too much draft which causes the firebox to not be able to complete combustion and pulls the heavy smoke out. Similarly, too little draft causes smoke to build and choke the fire which can cause black plumes. Of course this condition is common when first firing an engine which is why you will have heavy black smoke when only using the auxiliary draft fans because there's no steam pressure yet.

Third, equipment and firebox design make this vary a lot. Things like a feed water heater reduce temperature variance in parts of the firebox and promotes dryer steam which overall comes across as a cleaner exhaust.

Fourth, there are a lot of people who do or don't associate thick dark smoke with steam engines because practices differed. In England, heavy emphasis was placed on clean burning because of urbanized areas. In the US, many roads did not or could not care about that (only so much heat from a firebox, and lots of heavy trains and steep grades). It wasn't really until the late 1920s with the invention of Lima's 2 axle trailing truck that sufficiently large (and heavy) fireboxes were possible to meet all road locomotive demands. The net effect is many restored engines make photo opportunities and purposefully "make smoke", but also why when you see famous older pictures of engines being worked hard they have black smoke.

In the end, these things mean that as you reduce crew skill or increase the age of the equipment (esp old wood burners) you are likely to see significant black smoke. On well maintained modern steam engines you will see very little, most of the time, especially those tiny European engines.

Solo stoves/smokeless fire pits are a simple example of these concepts and why it's a bit more complex than saying there is or isn't.
 
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Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
80,476
161,061
just-sit-down-and-ill-explain-everything-let-me-explain.gif


Not quite so fast.

Steam engines exhaust their combustion gasses through the smoke stack. That's why it's called that, used steam is used for many purposes and is not simply through the stack (superheater, compound cylinders, whistle, blow down valves, etc.). If the fireman is properly tending the fire in a modern steam locomotive, the exhaust steam used to create a firebox draft (which pulls any smoke through the boiler flues) will be the primary visible gas and since it is wet and condensing at this point is white.

However, a few problems with this generalization. First, smoke is always present as a byproduct of combustion, even if it can be consumed by the fire itself in ideal conditions.

Secondly, older engines without stokers and better firebox management tools are much harder too keep clean burning or burn hot enough all the time. Wheel slip, grade changes, etc. can pull too much draft which causes the firebox to not be able to complete combustion and pulls the heavy smoke out. Similarly, too little draft causes smoke to build and choke the fire which can cause black plumes. Of course this condition is common when first firing an engine which is why you will have heavy black smoke when only using the auxiliary draft fans because there's no steam pressure yet.

Third, equipment and firebox design make this vary a lot. Things like a feed water heater reduce temperature variance in parts of the firebox and promotes dryer steam which overall comes across as a cleaner exhaust.

Fourth, there are a lot of people who do or don't associate thick dark smoke with steam engines because practices differed. In England, heavy emphasis was placed on clean burning because of urbanized areas. In the US, many roads did not or could not care about that (only so much heat from a firebox, and lots of heavy trains and steep grades). It wasn't really until the late 1920s with the invention of Lima's 2 axle trailing truck that sufficiently large (and heavy) fireboxes were possible to meet all road locomotive demands. The net effect is many restored engines make photo opportunities and purposefully "make smoke", but also why when you see famous older pictures of engines being worked hard they have black smoke.

In the end, these things mean that as you reduce crew skill or increase the age of the equipment (esp old wood burners) you are likely to see significant black smoke. On well maintained modern steam engines you will see very little, most of the time, especially those tiny European engines.

Solo stoves/smokeless fire pits are a simple example of these concepts and why it's a bit more complex than saying there is or isn't.

What you really need to know is that 1 year ago Chris Chris saw a picture of a Russian diesel powered aircraft carrier emitting black smoke on some faggot Britsh news site and came running here excitedly to tell us how backwards Russia is because they have a "steam powered carrier"

Chris Chris is an ignorant byproduct of britbong propaganda so he didnt know that even nuclear aircraft carriers operate with steam turbines.
 

Palum

what Suineg set it to
26,726
41,867
What you really need to know is that 1 year ago Chris Chris saw a picture of a Russian diesel powered aircraft carrier emitting black smoke on some faggot Britsh news site and came running here excitedly to tell us how backwards Russia is because they have a "steam powered carrier"

Chris Chris is an ignorant byproduct of britbong propaganda so he didnt know that even nuclear aircraft carriers operate with steam turbines.
Not disagreeing, I just thought you might like to know about steam traction as a learned individual.
 
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Chris

Potato del Grande
19,436
-10,732
Oh weird.

If they didnt need anything then why did they spend 20+ years and vast amounts of tme dragging Ukraine into globohomo orbit?

You sure they didnt need anything? Like a place to endlessly launder vast sums of money of Western taxpayer money, or trafficking humans, or do biolological weapon research outside the jurisdiction of their own country?

Stop lying to yourself.
Who are "they"? There is no unified will behind globohomo, it's a loose confederation of clientelisms which includes the Russian elite.

Successful globohomo people already have their cut of the world and just need to maintain their position trading favours which may or may not involve dumping some military equipment in Ukraine.

So we are looking at people carving out new territories to establish themselves (Hunter Biden) or people wanting to get into history books (Putin).
 

Chris

Potato del Grande
19,436
-10,732
What you really need to know is that 1 year ago Chris Chris saw a picture of a Russian diesel powered aircraft carrier emitting black smoke on some faggot Britsh news site and came running here excitedly to tell us how backwards Russia is because they have a "steam powered carrier"

Chris Chris is an ignorant byproduct of britbong propaganda so he didnt know that even nuclear aircraft carriers operate with steam turbines.
If I had said the more precise word "train" instead of the more broadly applicable "engine", or the source of the black gas "coal" I was imagining instead of the product "steam" then we would be in a very different situation on this forum today.

Russia would still be making no progress in Ukraine but Araysar would have found something different to be pedantic about.
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
80,476
161,061
If I had said the more precise word "train" instead of the more broadly applicable "engine", or the source of the black gas "coal" I was imagining instead of the product "steam" then we would be in a very different situation on this forum today.

Russia would still be making no progress in Ukraine but Araysar would have found something different to be pedantic about.

Russia is making plenty of progress. 5th month of Ukrainian Counteroffensive and they advanced, what? 10 miles in one section of a 200 mile front?
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
80,476
161,061
Russia advanced -10 miles? That's plenty is it?

Its a sad when you have to cling on to the same argument that has been debunked only 500 times here. You imagine Russia's conditions for success to be the same as Ukraine, regardless of what the actual reality is.
 

Loser Araysar

Chief Russia Reporter. Stock Pals CEO. Head of AI.
<Gold Donor>
80,476
161,061
Yeah, 10 whole miles that they sacrificed how many brigades for? Boy does Russia sure have egg on its face over this exchange

100k+ Ukrainians to go 10 miles

10k Ukrainians per mile

2 Ukrainians for every 1 foot of advance.
 

yerm

Golden Baronet of the Realm
6,500
16,644
100k+ Ukrainians to go 10 miles

10k Ukrainians per mile

2 Ukrainians for every 1 foot of advance.

Simple math here really. Each soldier advances the ukrainian line about the length of their dick.
 
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Chris

Potato del Grande
19,436
-10,732
Will be funny if Ukraine's fourth mobilisation crippled women's brigade continues to hold strong against Russia, then you guys say it's all part of the plan.
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
13,415
15,578
Really need pre-flip-flop pro-Ukraine Foler back in here to reengage in competitive shotgun posting with Araysar. Folder definitely has the command center to keep up.