Running

LiquidDeath

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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Rise from the grave, running thread!

Okay, so 10 years ago I ran a half-marathon at a 6 mph pace and had to walk from mile 9 marker to the finish line after severely aggravating my sciatic never. I've tried running off and on since then, but it has always really hurt my ankles and knees and feet. Come to find out that running in Vibram Five-Finger barefoot shoes fixes those pain problems, so I've started running again but I want to be faster.

I can currently run a 5k at a 7 mph pace, but I'm left heaving at the end of it. I can run 5 miles at a 6.5 mph pace and am left heaving as well.

Here is my question. I want to eventually run a half marathon again but finish it running this time and I want to do it as fast as possible (at least a 7 mph pace), but I am not a trained runner and I don't know what kind of training schedule/method I should be using to increase my speed over distance.

Anyone here that can help? Fealorn Fealorn ? radditsu radditsu ? Ravishing Ravishing ?
 
CaughtCross

CaughtCross

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Run a lot myself and used to do cross country back in the day. Go to a specialized running store and make sure you have the right kind of shoe for your stride. This is really important to avoid injury and the first thing you should do before training again. After that just start running and building up to longer runs. Dunno where you live but if your half marathon will have hills make sure you train on hills. A lot of people avoid hills in training and get destroyed and races that have hills.
 
Ravishing

Ravishing

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I'm not a regular runner by any means, I normally sign up for a race then train for it, right now training for a half marathon in Sept. I got screwed last month, hyper extended my calf , took 4 weeks to heal. Just did 5 miles today but I'm so behind in training now. (Was huffing pretty hard during & after)

Anyway my goto training plans come from here:
Marathon Training for All Skill Levels | Hal Higdon

I am not hardcore at all and usually do a 4runs per week when training for a full marathon. First month or 2 are a struggle but eventually you build endurance and stamina. My best times are a 1hr 50min half and 4hr 8min full.

Obviously more training will yield better results but you need to do what works for whatever else is going on in your life. Running 4x/week at up to 3hrs a run can start to feel like a part time job.


Aside from that... if you lack energy to perform a run sometimes it's just fatigue, but often it can be diet. As long as I carb load the night before a morning run or around noon for an evening run, I normally feel great.

Also, diet isn't an exact science, you really need to experiment with different foods, different amounts, and see how you feel during the run.

I use to have good luck with subs from subway but all 3 around me have closed. So now it's usually pasta with red sauce before a big run
 
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LiquidDeath

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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CaughtCross said:
Run a lot myself and used to do cross country back in the day. Go to a specialized running store and make sure you have the right kind of shoe for your stride. This is really important to avoid injury and the first thing you should do before training again. After that just start running and building up to longer runs. Dunno where you live but if your half marathon will have hills make sure you train on hills. A lot of people avoid hills in training and get destroyed and races that have hills.
Click to expand...

I can't get behind this at all.

Before the half marathon 10 years ago I went to the highest rated running shoes store in the area and they set me up with thicker heeled shoes with built up arch support to stop me from over pronating. I was younger so I suffered through lots of foot and ankle pain to train for 12 weeks and eventually run myself into full blown sciatica on race day.

6 years later I go to a new fangled running store to try and get into it again with new shoe tech. They record my stride on a treadmill to confirm the over pronating issue and set me up with a Newton shoe specifically designed for people with the problem and also with a set of inserts to relieve the arch pain. They worked okay but I still had pretty severe arch, foot, and ankle pain while only running 5ks.

Fast forward to 6 weeks ago and now I have 2 young kids and little time to exercise, but we still have a treadmill. I start thinking I want to give running one last try before giving it up forever. I start researching my particular issues and run across a lot of people who had the same problems but resolved them using barefoot shoes. After pulling out my OG Vibram Bikilas and running in them for 3 miles a day twice a week to get back into it, I have had zero arch, foot, or ankle pain aside from normal aches due to working out again after a long break. In fact I ran 5 miles last Monday with no pain during the run. That is a first for me ever and not something you usually hear from an almost 40 year old.

Those running stores are good at diagnosing issues, but they aren't a substitute for research and testing, especially before buying specialized, expensive shoes.
 
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CaughtCross

CaughtCross

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Ouch that sounds like a bad experince. Have had the exact opposite where I try to get shoes not through a running store and mess up my feet but the shoes I get recommend by running stores always worked great for me.
 
LiquidDeath

LiquidDeath

Magnus Deadlift the Fucktiger
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CaughtCross said:
Ouch that sounds like a bad experince. Have had the exact opposite where I try to get shoes not through a running store and mess up my feet but the shoes I get recommend by running stores always worked great for me.
Click to expand...

Maybe it is unique to people who require barefoot shoes to eliminate pain. All I know is that specialized shoes for exactly my conditions only make them worse. It take a single mile in any shoes before I can tell if they will work for me or not.
 
Fealorn

Fealorn

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My training plans work only for me, as others have said it varies wildly between individuals. I run 2-3x during the week and a long run on Sat morning, a training season has me starting my long run at 10km and increasing 2km a week with consolidation runs at 21km, 30km and 38km where I run those distances 2 weeks in a row. I taper for two weeks after, 30km, 21km, then race. My weekday runs are 10km.

I've used the same make and model of shoes for over 10 years, if they go on sale I buy a few extra pairs and keep them for when I need them. I had shoe problems way back in the day until the employee of a running store said I should use a shoe half a size smaller...no problems since then.
 
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Tuco

Tuco

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So I'm a novice runner and started running last week (getting nicer out). Last week I did three "runs" that are more jog-walking of distances of 1km, 6km, and 3km. An hour after my 3km excursion my right knee developed a moderate swollen feeling underneath the knee cap. It's not painful, but is more uncomfortable if I fully bend my knee.. I googled a bit and it seems like an early/mild case of runner's knee aka Patellofemoral Pain Syndrome, but I'm not really sure because it's not painful, just swollen / uncomfortable:

What’s the Best Solution for Runner’s Knee?
Everything You Need to Know About Runner's Knee—Even If You're Not a Runner
Runners Knee: There are two kinds, which do you have?

I did some research and most places say it's weak hips. I put together a basic hip workout routine that I plan on doing 2x a day until the knee conditions decrease:
25x per direction lateral band walks:
10x per leg stability ball single leg bridge:
20x per leg drive backs: https://runnersconnect.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/drive-back2.jpg
20x per leg drive forwards: (same as drive backs, just different direction)

Additionally I'm going to start doing limber 11 before my runs.

I also started lifting a month ago and lift 3x a week with a pretty standard compound lifting program that has me doing squats 2x a week and deadlifts 1x a week. The weight I lift is pretty modest, right now it's 200lbs squat and 235 deadlift, but it's going up every week.

Finally, I've seen some people recommend getting a knee brace / stabilizer ex:
Compressions Knee Brace Support

I don't really like the idea of using an aid, but maybe it'd help me continue to run while I'm strengthening my legs? I wouldn't want to use it long-term.

Any advice welcome!

edit: I read through the thread, I did get a shoe recommendation after running at a running store. That shoe and a few other tips helped with another issue I had with my calf muscles, so I feel pretty good about the running shoe I have and haven't put many miles on it.
 
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Tuco

Tuco

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Oh, and I started using Zombies, Run!

It's pretty basic, but as an obsessive gamer I'm pretty excited about it. I'm really looking forward to being able to run regularly so I can keep playing the new game.
 
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Tuco

Tuco

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CaughtCross said:
Start taking this twice a day. It will go a long way in helping with your knee and future joint injuries.
Amazon product ASIN B000EGMDR8
Click to expand...
also just had to do a double take when I was browsing the internet and saw this artist image of Hayao Miyazaki immediately after seeing your post (and avatar):
2lr3pr3uxpq21.jpg
 
CaughtCross

CaughtCross

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Tuco said:
How do you feel about this instead? I think it's cheaper and more highly rated.
Click to expand...

Same main ingredients, should be fine. This stuff makes a big difference with joint pain and injury prevention over time. It is the best supplment to take while running. And no idea where my avatar even came from. Didnt have one for a long time and one day this one was there.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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I think it might've been me, I've given out a ton of avatars over the years!

Just ordered that, thanks for the advice.
 
Tuco

Tuco

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I've been avoiding running and my inflammation/swelling has progressed into a small amount of pain. I'm not sure if I'll run tonight but I've been reading about it more and found this article:

www.theglobeandmail.com

Why treating runner’s knee can be a simple fix

Avoiding training errors such as running too fast or increasing distance too quickly should be first priority in dealing with running injuries of all types
www.theglobeandmail.com www.theglobeandmail.com

That I think is interesting. It describes the results of a "failed" experiment where the groups under test performed the same as the control groups. It's an explicit recommendation of increasing speed / intensity / distance / duration slowly.

If my goal was to run a specific distance (ex: 5km) a day that I increase steadily over time, I'm not sure if running 2x a day for 2.5km per run is better than 1x a day for 5km per run.
 
M

matsb84

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Well..whats your goal? Why are you running? What's the end game for it? Are you going to do a race? Are you playing a sport that requires running? My view on it is, if you're not doing something that requires running, why do it? There's other forms of cardio that aren't as high impact and just as beneficial. But, to answer your question, I think if you're wanting to run a particular distance (in this case, a shorter distance), you should run that distance in one shot. If it's running/walking, doesn't matter early on. The completion of the distance is the important part. You'll build on it over time. Distances will go up, times to complete those distances will go down. It's all consistency.

Of course, when you're training for a longer race, the rules change because of the stress those longer runs can cause. I'm training for a 1/2 marathon now, and I'll try to do 1-2 intermediate runs (4+ miles) and a longer run (8-10miles) each week. Now, as time goes on, as the race gets closer, my intermediate runs may grow to 6-6.5 mile runs, and the longer run may get as long as 11-12miles, but I'm not going to do a 13.1 mile run prior to the 1/2. Partly because I know I can do the distance, and partly because the training I do prior will be more than enough to get me to the end without issue.

Also, the hip PT you're doing is all good stuff. Some other ones I'll do are clam shells, and in addition to the lateral band walks, I'll do monster walks (forwards and back), and regular bridges/one legged bridges. Will also foam roll/stretch 1-2 times a week. Really digging into the hips. It's not enough, but its better than nothing. Another book you might want to consider is Running Revolution. Pretty good break down on running form and injury prevention. I'll also add, having the right shoes for your feet will go a long ways for how you feel post run.
 
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Tuco

Tuco

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matsb84 said:
Well..whats your goal? Why are you running? What's the end game for it? Are you going to do a race? Are you playing a sport that requires running? My view on it is, if you're not doing something that requires running, why do it? There's other forms of cardio that aren't as high impact and just as beneficial. But, to answer your question, I think if you're wanting to run a particular distance (in this case, a shorter distance), you should run that distance in one shot. If it's running/walking, doesn't matter early on. The completion of the distance is the important part. You'll build on it over time. Distances will go up, times to complete those distances will go down. It's all consistency.

Of course, when you're training for a longer race, the rules change because of the stress those longer runs can cause. I'm training for a 1/2 marathon now, and I'll try to do 1-2 intermediate runs (4+ miles) and a longer run (8-10miles) each week. Now, as time goes on, as the race gets closer, my intermediate runs may grow to 6-6.5 mile runs, and the longer run may get as long as 11-12miles, but I'm not going to do a 13.1 mile run prior to the 1/2. Partly because I know I can do the distance, and partly because the training I do prior will be more than enough to get me to the end without issue.

Also, the hip PT you're doing is all good stuff. Some other ones I'll do are clam shells, and in addition to the lateral band walks, I'll do monster walks (forwards and back), and regular bridges/one legged bridges. Will also foam roll/stretch 1-2 times a week. Really digging into the hips. It's not enough, but its better than nothing. Another book you might want to consider is Running Revolution. Pretty good break down on running form and injury prevention. I'll also add, having the right shoes for your feet will go a long ways for how you feel post run.
Click to expand...
I guess i mostly dont want to be a broken down piece of human trash that cant jog for more than a few minutes without keeling over from short breath, blisters on my feet and busted ass knees.

I enjoy running vs other cardio work and am motivated to beat this zombies, run! game. Beyond that i guess i want to have a respectable 5k or 10k time by the end of the running season this year.


Ill incorporate clam shells and take a look at that book.
 
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Ao-

Ao-

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Tuco said:
I guess i mostly dont want to be a broken down piece of human trash that cant jog for more than a few minutes without keeling over from short breath, blisters on my feet and busted ass knees.

I enjoy running vs other cardio work and am motivated to beat this zombies, run! game. Beyond that i guess i want to have a respectable 5k or 10k time by the end of the running season this year.


Ill incorporate clam shells and take a look at that book.
Click to expand...
You ever decide to jog one of the local races, let me know and I'll join you. My running journey went "biking a bit" to "biking a lot" to "running a bit" to "running a lot" to "injured (because of biking" to "marathon" to "fun runs".

Keep on it and good luck.
 
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Tuco

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As an update I did the above stuff I said was doing this week and my "runners knee" symptoms have almost entirely cleared.

I also developed an increasing level of lower back pain just above the hip. I've been ignoring it until this morning where I did some research and think it's related to this.



I just did the exercises in it and can't really say if the symptoms are totally gone, but it seems better. I'm adding the uhh, lying-on-the-side-extension-abduction exercises to my routine. Doing that routine was pretty tough for me which probably points to hip weakness.

It's funny, my annoyance at not being able to just get better at running by running more is mixed with satisfaction in solving fundamental biomechanical problems I have.
 
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