Science!! Fucking magnets, how do they work?

Furry

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BurnemWizfyre_sl said:
Einstein didn't like quantum mechanics either but over the past half century or more the prevailing opinion has been to shut up and calculate.
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Quantum mechanics is a religious belief which has chosen to encompass physical math for no reason. It really is an unproductive theory based entirely around a thought experiment demanded by einstein which has never been proven. On top of that, if it ever were proven, it would only agree with the much older malus's law... It's a bizarre exercise in circular logic that has always supremely confused me.

I'm not a fan of einstein, but he wasn't always wrong. His derision of QM was a place where he was very on point.
 
pharmakos

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Rhuma_sl said:
Basically.... Get a flashlight and shine it on the floor. Record how long it took to travel that distance (lol) now do the same thing but do it running. The distance the light traveled was in an angle and covered more distance but it took the same time to travel a greater distance in the same amount of time.

That is what is being discussed.
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from the way i read the article, that is incorrect. i believe what the article says is that the time that light takes to travel wouldseemlonger to us, but that the extra time is just something we're perceiving rather than something that is actually occurring.
 
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Rhuma_sl

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pharmakos_sl said:
from the way i read the article, that is incorrect. i believe what the article says is that the time that light takes to travel wouldseemlonger to us, but that the extra time is just something we're perceiving rather than something that is actually occurring.
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Well that is the question, whether the universe is actually expanding faster than it was or the light is being affected by time dilation in some way. I'd bet money on the latter.

edit: There is one instance where an object actually increases velocity on our planet and thats when you drop a rock off an airplane and as it descends to earth(gravity) it picks up speed but that would contradict the big bang unless some galaxies are flying straight toward the next big bang and others are taking an elliptical route to the next big bang.
 
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Big Phoenix_sl said:
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lost me at 'entanglement is real'.

It's never been proven, it only might be real. QM is useful in the fact that probabilities are the 'best we can do' to understand the universe at times. But as our understanding of physics gets better and better, the probability becomes less and less influential. Einstein understood fully that while our math and understanding of the universe was limited, and probability is required to understand things with our limited knowledge, this probability is not truth, this probability is not something that actually exists in nature.

One of the major problems that exists in science at all levels is when scientists believe that their theories are truths rather than attempts at explanations. One of the biggest examples of this in theoretical math/science is the acceptance of negative numbers. People now adays simply accept negative numbers as real and existing, when they came into existance simply as a way to explain when human concepts intersect with physical nature. Humans think things up that aren't true all the time, and we really hurt our ability to understand things when we think our concepts have higher meaning or even become accepted parts of nature for no rational reason.
 
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The Ancient_sl

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Rhuma_sl said:
edit: There is one instance where an object actually increases velocity on our planet and thats when you drop a rock off an airplane and as it descends to earth(gravity) it picks up speed but that would contradict the big bang unless some galaxies are flying straight toward the next big bang and others are taking an elliptical route to the next big bang.
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Eh?
 
khalid

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Furry_sl said:
One of the biggest examples of this in theoretical math/science is the acceptance of negative numbers. People now adays simply accept negative numbers as real and existing, when they came into existance simply as a way to explain when human concepts intersect with physical nature. Humans think things up that aren't true all the time, and we really hurt our ability to understand things when we think our concepts have higher meaning or even become accepted parts of nature for no rational reason.
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Yeah, the acceptance of negative numbers has really hurt mathematics and the sciences. Wtf did I just read.

edit: Complex numbers must really scare you also.
 
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The Ancient_sl said:
Eh?
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Its pure conjecture, in a thought experiment towards time dilation not being true in the acceleration of the universes expansion, that something would have to pull the galaxies, as far as I understand physics. The big bang theory would be contradicted in this case because all the galaxies are moving away from the big bang in different directions, for gravity to be the pull, all galaxies would be pulled in one direction, which would be possible if our galaxies are not moving in a straight line from the big bang.

I haven't heard anything to suggest this is true but would be interesting to have people test this theory.

Edit: or maybe it would confirm perceived time dilation as we know it, I've confused myself. lol
 
Furry

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khalid_sl said:
Yeah, the acceptance of negative numbers has really hurt mathematics and the sciences. Wtf did I just read.

edit: Complex numbers must really scare you also.
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There's a huge difference between their application as a human concept and acceptance as truths. One can be done and allow negative numbers to be productive toward science, one causes irrational concepts to be developed, EG: negative mass theories. Taking a sledgehammer to my argument just shows a lack of understanding on your part to what I'm talking about. Negative numbers can be a useful tool, but you have to understand their limitations.

Can you give an example of negative numbers in nature? Quick hint, there isn't a single one, they only exist with human reference frames, whereas examples of physical positive math are clearly abundant.
 
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Furry_sl said:
Quantum mechanics is a religious belief which has chosen to encompass physical math for no reason. It really is an unproductive theory based entirely around a thought experiment demanded by einstein which has never been proven. On top of that, if it ever were proven, it would only agree with the much older malus's law... It's a bizarre exercise in circular logic that has always supremely confused me.

I'm not a fan of einstein, but he wasn't always wrong. His derision of QM was a place where he was very on point.
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You have lost your computer privileges because you don't think QM works. Your computer wouldn't exist in its current state because of QM.
 
khalid

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Furry_sl said:
There's a huge difference between their application as a human concept and acceptance as truths. One can be done and allow negative numbers to be productive toward science, one causes irrational concepts to be developed, EG: negative mass theories. Taking a sledgehammer to my argument just shows a lack of understanding on your part to what I'm talking about. Negative numbers can be a useful tool, but you have to understand their limitations.

Can you give an example of negative numbers in nature? Quick hint, there isn't a single one, they only exist with human reference frames, whereas examples of physical positive math are clearly abundant.
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I'm taking a sledgehammer to your argument because you are being silly. The lack of acceptance of concepts like the 0, negative numbers and complex numbers held back mathematics in many areas. It doesn't matter if "negative numbers only exist in human reference frames", since we are fucking human and use numbers like that.

Just because you can't handle these concepts and find them uncomfortable doesn't mean they hurt mathematics or physics.
 
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Because concepts that don't apply immediately when you walk outside and likely would only exist when black holes and other non-local phenomenon come in to play "hurts" science, yeah...
 
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The Ancient_sl

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You guys are focusing on the wrong point he's making. He's doing a bad job of explaining it, but it's mainly a condemnation of the belief in anti-matter as a physical construct.
 
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khalid_sl said:
I'm taking a sledgehammer to your argument because you are being silly. The lack of acceptance of concepts like the 0, negative numbers and complex numbers held back mathematics in many areas. It doesn't matter if "negative numbers only exist in human reference frames", since we are fucking human and use numbers like that.

Just because you can't handle these concepts and find them uncomfortable doesn't mean they hurt mathematics or physics.
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Where do I say I'm against negatives or hate the concepts? I'm perfectly fine with them and they don't make me uncomfortable. What I hate, and the only thing I hate are people who elevate these concepts past being concepts. They are that, and nothing more or less. People who don't understand that, people who think they have greater meaning than human concepts are the problem.

Quantum mechanics as a field was directly spawned from this exact sort of elevation. It is why I am very against it, and why I consider it such a vapid part of science. I basically consider it the SJW section of physics, where people's ideas of how the universe should work are accepted as fact. Yes we need these concepts to explain things we don't know, but just because we can explain them to a reasonable degree mathematically most of the time doesn't mean we know them. QM is really just bad science in that regard.
 
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Negative numbers are just as abstract as any other number. Many smart people in the past decided it is useful to have a construct known as the integers and one of the rules of such a construct was additive inverses otherwise known as negative numbers(and later on this idea was extended past integers). These arent "concepts", these are widely accepted and widely used mathematical structures. Same structures that are used to describe every single physical phenomenon that we observe.

Also your earlier claim that probabilities are used only because we dont understand some things is ridiculous. Some things are just random.
 
Valishar

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Furry_sl said:
One of the major problems that exists in science at all levels is when scientists believe that their theories are truths rather than attempts at explanations. One of the biggest examples of this in theoretical math/science is the acceptance of negative numbers. People now adays simply accept negative numbers as real and existing, when they came into existance simply as a way to explain when human concepts intersect with physical nature. Humans think things up that aren't true all the time, and we really hurt our ability to understand things when we think our concepts have higher meaning or even become accepted parts of nature for no rational reason.
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Forget negative numbers, most real numbers don't exist either, or more specifically they are completely based on human conceptions. The whole thing is philosophical.

For example lets take 0.5. There isn't really anything in nature which is a half, the idea of having a half of something is a human conception. You can't have half an apple without first defining what an apple is (which is arbitrary because no two apples are exactly the same), and even if they are exactly the same they are still composed of just a multitude of littler carbon/hydrogen/oxygen atoms. And if you go down to the fundamental particles which are not arbitrary, they are fundamental and can't be divided in half. So fractions don't actually exist, just like negative numbers, or complex numbers. But that's a distinction only a philosopher would care about.

The Ancient_sl said:
You guys are focusing on the wrong point he's making. He's doing a bad job of explaining it, but it's mainly a condemnation of the belief in anti-matter as a physical construct.
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Except antimatter isn't a physical construct, it actually exists, we've observed it.
 
Agraza

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You're 0.5 of my soul lover.
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valishar_sl said:
Forget negative numbers, most real numbers don't exist either, or more specifically they are completely based on human conceptions. The whole thing is philosophical.

For example lets take 0.5. There isn't really anything in nature which is a half, the idea of having a half of something is a human conception. You can't have half an apple without first defining what an apple is (which is arbitrary because no two apples are exactly the same), and even if they are exactly the same they are still composed of just a multitude of littler carbon/hydrogen/oxygen atoms. And if you go down to the fundamental particles which are not arbitrary, they are fundamental and can't be divided in half. So fractions don't actually exist, just like negative numbers, or complex numbers. But that's a distinction only a philosopher would care about.


Except antimatter isn't a physical construct, it actually exists, we've observed it.
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hmm maybe youve heard of I dont this little thing called HALF LIVES?!
 
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