Shadowrun Returns

Vorph · Jul 26, 2013

Academic and Shadowrunner were my choices and they've paid off pretty well so far.

Info about decker skill caps and how much decking is actually used in game, from someone who has completed the campaign:

- Decker Skill Caps out at 6 for story and item reasons, and highest Intel check was 5 and gets you nothing.
- Only 2 Matrix Missions in game. Felt underused, I don't recommend playing as a Decker. Plus Deckers are useless on the final mission, nothing to jack into.

Hopefully they patch the game soon, the missing/invisible dialogs and the bug which leaves you stuck in turn-based mode sometimes after fights end are both really annoying.

Nirgon · Jul 26, 2013

Oh don't ruin it knowing how to pick optimum choices for things before they happen. It defeats the entire point.

Delly · Jul 26, 2013

I'm pretty certain you can port some of these characters into other mods.. so maybe a decker specific mod will be made sometime. Not that it matters now or for the main campaign, just a thought.

Also, can you uninstall cyberware?

lindz · Jul 26, 2013

Might be a stupid question. My programs are in my stash. Do they just stay there unless I am in the matrix. Should my programs be loaded in my deck all the time? If so, how? I've done the matrix and my programs were available, but it makes no sense logically that my programs be in my stash and not my deck when not in the matrix.

Noodleface · Jul 26, 2013

lindz is the queen of Rerolled, answer her of face my wrath.

I'm going to pick this up tonight, never played a game like this before but it has me interested - what other games in this genre are there? I think I've heard X-COM tossed around, any others? I used to play this weird game called Crusader: No Remorse or something back in my MS-DOS gaming days, is this similar?

Delly · Jul 26, 2013

Noodleface_sl said:
lindz is the queen of Rerolled, answer her of face my wrath.

I'm going to pick this up tonight, never played a game like this before but it has me interested - what other games in this genre are there? I think I've heard X-COM tossed around, any others? I used to play this weird game called Crusader: No Remorse or something back in my MS-DOS gaming days, is this similar?

Not many really and a lot of the turn based RPG games all have different ways of telling their story. XCOM: Enemy Unknown is a turn based RPG with some base management, Shadowrun Returns is a turn based RPG with some classic RPG elements and some new ones mixed in, there is also Omerta, a turn based mafia game with lots of management aspects but it wasn't a very popular game.

These types of games seem big on Kickstarter and a lot of them are getting funded and funded well.

Gavinmad · Jul 26, 2013

lindz_sl said:
Might be a stupid question. My programs are in my stash. Do they just stay there unless I am in the matrix. Should my programs be loaded in my deck all the time? If so, how? I've done the matrix and my programs were available, but it makes no sense logically that my programs be in my stash and not my deck when not in the matrix.

Yes, your programs sit in the stash, but you automatically get to pick whichever ones you want to run with when you jack in.

@Delly I don't think so, but even if you can, you never get essence back, it's gone forever when you install cyberware.

Delicateflower_sl · Jul 26, 2013

So much hate for this game on the steam forums, im wondering if its just an age thing, where people here are older and can appreciate a good story and can... read text. Or some shills from big companies not wanting this sort of thing to blow up. Corporate warfare... lol

I mean, the game is more linear than id like, but its a pretty good story. And the possibilities afterwards after people fiddle with the editor seems pretty nice.

Vorph · Jul 26, 2013

Nirgon_sl said:
Oh don't ruin it knowing how to pick optimum choices for things before they happen. It defeats the entire point.

It's the exact opposite for me, and it's 'ruined' if I don't know that the designers never actually intended for people to max anything out. It's the kind of thing that makes me restart a game even when I'm 85% done, and I hate that shit.

If I make any UGC for this game you can bet your ass there will be Decking checks that require a 9 to succeed, and have tangible effects/benefits. And pretty much every other stat/skill with the exception of extreme outliers like troll strength, etc.

Gavinmad · Jul 26, 2013

Meh. The campaign is obviously pretty lacking, but it looks like they set down a pretty solid framework for player generated combat.

Weapons seem pretty poorly balanced.

Pistols - the only thing pistols have going for them is 0 AP reloads and that's really weak even if you're using a really low capacity pistol, if you're using a higher capacity pistol it's worthless.

SMG - Can someone explain to me how these are anything more than a weaker assault rifle?

Shotguns - Really solid, and if combat were more difficult, I think Shotguns would be the best weapon. Being able to engage multiple targets and drain their AP is amazing, but not super necessary with the combat being so easy.

Rifles - Best option for pure damage, and with the difficulty being what it is, pure damage is your best option.

Haven't messed around with unarmed or melee yet but my gut tells me they're weaker than ranged.

lindz · Jul 26, 2013

The best way I can describe it is playing through a short novel. You have no real choices and there lacks balance, but the story is fine and the flavor is great.

If you like the Shadowrun universe, it is good regardless of depth. If you want a deep, open world RPG, this isn't the game for you.

Zhaun_sl · Jul 26, 2013

I think some people are kind of misunderstanding what they bought here.

They didn't buy a huge 40+ hour multiple choice RPG campaign for $20. They bought a game engine, RPG mechanics, strong editor and a simple little 10 hour game to show off the basics for $20.

The real pay off comes weeks or months from now with hours and hours of user content and campaigns.

Vorph · Jul 26, 2013

That may be so but I think having higher expectations for the campaign is a valid complaint. I personally don't have a problem with linearity at all, so my criticisms are more with the implementation than the content so far.

I also think they cut some corners with the engine that are disappointing, from the perspective of someone considering making content for it. People have found ways around some of what the campaign is lacking, like lootable/persistent corpses, random encounters, etc. but the cover system is rather wonky compared to XCOM's (which itself was far from perfect), balance is pretty skewed as Gavinrad covered, it lacks some pretty basic TBS functions like the ability to slip in and out of combat mode as needed, and the UI is sorely in need of a review to add in a lot more tooltips, better descriptions, and ease-of-use fixes.

Gavinmad · Jul 26, 2013

Also rotating camera would be nice, unless, just like when i first started Xcom, I just can't find the controls

Noodleface · Jul 26, 2013

I'm really hoping the community is what makes this game great.

Zhaun_sl · Jul 26, 2013

Gavinrad_sl said:
Also rotating camera would be nice, unless, just like when i first started Xcom, I just can't find the controls

The world/terrain is 2D I think, so no rotation

Duppin_sl · Jul 26, 2013

For $20 I think it's a good value. Hopefully people will start cranking out some good stuff soon, but I can see myself playing through the existing campaign a couple of times as different kinds of characters.

Pyros · Jul 26, 2013

On balance, I'm not too sure what's the point of Unarmed. I mean first off it's only viable if you use Chi to get Killer Hands(that's the first point though so you can get that easily but if you get a ton of cyberware the cooldown becomes noticeably longer than the duration so it's kinda messed up). Other than that it gets the exact same skills as melee weapons and doesn't seem to do as much damage so that's like weird.

Melee weapons so far are pretty strong. I use Katanas because they create AP loss so they double as disable for tougher enemies, as every hit pretty much removes AP. The AoE move is also pretty nice since it drains AP in an AoE so you can CC a bunch of shit at once, as long as you have high str/melee so you don't get weak hits or misses. You can instead increase your damage by 4 by using a non AP removing weapon(+1) and Thrust instead of Slash(+3, no AP removal, -15% accuracy which you make up by using Aim). This is nice when you want to kill stuff faster. With Haste my melee has no problem killing mobs in one round, generally can charge across the room and beat down a caster before they get to move easily. So far none of the ranged chars I got to use as mercs came close to that damage potential, but they don't have to be in melee range which has some implications if you're trying to aoe shit. Also out of cover a lot but I got some points in Chi to get the magic resistance buff in case of(while the cooldown is super long due to cyberware, it's fine because it lasts 4rounds so that's good enough to kill everything usually).

One thing I didn't get, Shamans can use Traps, like Wind traps or lightning traps or whatever, it's spells you get to drop in a formation on the ground. However it seems mobs can run through them and not take any damage, so I don't really get what's the point. It also says they're cover but you don't get cover indicators when standing next to them. Are they only supposed to do anything if the mob stands right inside them? Do they only provide cover for people standing inside them and taking dmg? Seems weird.

GeneralF · Jul 26, 2013

I used npcs' shaman traps and they dealt damage, as well as matrix traps. Overall I really liked the campaign, great tone, nice graphics, excellent writing, and the combat was fun although too easy. I'd recommend it to anyone who has an interest in Shadowrun.

Noodleface · Jul 26, 2013

Just started this tonight, really enjoying it so far. Unfortunately my eyes were friend from programming at work all day and I couldn't handle reading.

Shadowrun Returns

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