Shadowrun Returns

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Zhaun_sl

shitlord
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Pyros_sl said:
On balance, I'm not too sure what's the point of Unarmed. I mean first off it's only viable if you use Chi to get Killer Hands(that's the first point though so you can get that easily but if you get a ton of cyberware the cooldown becomes noticeably longer than the duration so it's kinda messed up). Other than that it gets the exact same skills as melee weapons and doesn't seem to do as much damage so that's like weird.

Melee weapons so far are pretty strong. I use Katanas because they create AP loss so they double as disable for tougher enemies, as every hit pretty much removes AP. The AoE move is also pretty nice since it drains AP in an AoE so you can CC a bunch of shit at once, as long as you have high str/melee so you don't get weak hits or misses. You can instead increase your damage by 4 by using a non AP removing weapon(+1) and Thrust instead of Slash(+3, no AP removal, -15% accuracy which you make up by using Aim). This is nice when you want to kill stuff faster. With Haste my melee has no problem killing mobs in one round, generally can charge across the room and beat down a caster before they get to move easily. So far none of the ranged chars I got to use as mercs came close to that damage potential, but they don't have to be in melee range which has some implications if you're trying to aoe shit. Also out of cover a lot but I got some points in Chi to get the magic resistance buff in case of(while the cooldown is super long due to cyberware, it's fine because it lasts 4rounds so that's good enough to kill everything usually).

One thing I didn't get, Shamans can use Traps, like Wind traps or lightning traps or whatever, it's spells you get to drop in a formation on the ground. However it seems mobs can run through them and not take any damage, so I don't really get what's the point. It also says they're cover but you don't get cover indicators when standing next to them. Are they only supposed to do anything if the mob stands right inside them? Do they only provide cover for people standing inside them and taking dmg? Seems weird.
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I think you point out the issues between melee and range. Melee should be more effective, but at the cost of having to close the distance and often not having cover.

Unarmed is only really supposed to be handy for Adepts or as a backup I guess.

I think the issue is it isn't clear if an Adept can stand on its own compared to a melee samurai with cyberware. They're supposed to be, but this system is a bit quirky so not sure.

The shaman wall/trap things should penalize people going through them, but not always damage.
 
Qhue

Qhue

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Chris Kluwe must have been the BIG backer on Kickstarter as he figures prominently in the side story conversations.

It isnt too surprising that combat difficulty is a bit off as that was the thing that had been the most highly variable in the last month of polish. Good news is that authors have quite a bit of leeway in terms of setting up combat scenarios and populations / scripted events to control for this. I even put some triggers in my own stuff whereby if the runners kill a certain threshold of bad guys within the first 2 rounds more reinforcements get added in offstage.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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I've been using traps again, not sure how the mob went through it last time but they do work fine, drop a trap in a chokepoint with multiple tiles and the mob will take fairly high damage from running through it(and the AI doesn't bother going around it seems).

Melee is as far as I can tell more effective than range. You have almost always a 99% chance to hit(might be because I maxed str and the melee stuff though) and you do a fuckton of damage when you connect. The "trick" especially is to get 4points in Chi Mastery, so you get Chi Strike. That's like a normal melee attack so it's not affected by essence count(I had 1 essence left from the cyber mods) that costs 2AP but hits twice, however it has increased crit chance, so it often one shots whatever you're hitting, and if you're using a katana even if they don't die they'll be sleeping next turn. I used Haste all the time on my melee so I'd get 4 AP per turn and just double chi strike 2 different mobs to keep them sleeping or simply kill them. Maybe it's the same for ranged though I've only used mercs and they were all fairly awful even with 15-18% chance to hit from Aim buff they'd still have like only 80% chance to hit with the enemy standing in front of them and the damage was way way lower.

Regardless though game is too easy for it to matter too much. Not enough mobs and while some mobs do fairly good dmg, as long as you have one healer or you buy a bunch of medkits I don't really see how you die.

Still was very enjoyable and well worth the money I put on it. I has plans of playing it again as a decker but I don't know, shit takes forever on top of the normal missions and it doesn't look like it'd speed up anything or close to. Like at some point there's a bunch of turrets you can hack but I just ran in with my samurai and 1shotted both turrets so it's like, eh, whatever.
 
Z

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
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One thing I was kind of hoping for was a bit of a X-Com style random mission, "random shadowrun" generator. Ah well.
 
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Commander Vimeseh_sl

shitlord
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Finished it. Anyone who is a fan of Shadowrun should love it, they nailed the atmosphere perfectly. Game play and UI is a bit fuzzy and counter intuitive at times but that didn't bother me all that much. I cant wait to see what people can crank out once they really get in to the editor, that and the DLC campaigns that the Devs put out will really be what makes this game shine.
 
D

Duppin_sl

shitlord
3,785
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In a side note, don't try to create more than one campaign at a time. When you try to make the second campaign, it'll crash. At least it does for me.
 
Vorph

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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So... don't bother trying to use the outfits that boost skills for now. I guess you just stick with quick/str/pure armor. Cyberware also doesn't seem to actually increase your hp. I have 2x leg implants and I'm still at 50hp instead of 66.

And another thing, don't put more than 5 points into your weapon skills. The high-skill abilities (Double Tap in my case) don't actually appear in the selection box when you're attacking an enemy. It's not just rifle either, I've seen people reporting the bug for other skills too.

srarmorbug.jpg
 
D

Duppin_sl

shitlord
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Yeah, a lot of bugs and some pacing issues too. I just managed to back myself into a corner where I don't have enough cash to hire runners to go to

the Universal Brotherhood
 
Pyros

Pyros

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Duppin_sl said:
Yeah, a lot of bugs and some pacing issues too. I just managed to back myself into a corner where I don't have enough cash to hire runners to go to

the Universal Brotherhood
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There's a bunch of cheap runners in the Nephilim tab, only 1k each. Might be later. I guess if you're completely out of money that's an issue. I did a bunch of missions with only 1 paid runner and 1 NPC that usually helps you, because I wanted to save money. Guess it's class specific but I could easily do most missions as a melee with just a mage for heals+armor/accuracy/haste buffs.
 
Delly

Delly

Trakanon Raider
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Duppin_sl said:
Yeah, a lot of bugs and some pacing issues too. I just managed to back myself into a corner where I don't have enough cash to hire runners to go to

the Universal Brotherhood
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No story spoilers, just advice.

I had a full group of 4 and I would say that 1-2 of my guys were just dicking around half the time. Could be doable with just you and Coyote, though at least 1 runner would help.
 
N

Numbers_sl

shitlord
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Zhaun_sl said:
I think you point out the issues between melee and range. Melee should be more effective, but at the cost of having to close the distance and often not having cover.

Unarmed is only really supposed to be handy for Adepts or as a backup I guess.

I think the issue is it isn't clear if an Adept can stand on its own compared to a melee samurai with cyberware. They're supposed to be, but this system is a bit quirky so not sure.
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I played and finished the Seattle story as an adept using just fists and it worked out just fine. Big hit points plus a few low level adept spells to fire up my fists, along with ranged back up and it was fairly straight forward.
 
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Troll_sl

shitlord
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I want this, but I think I'm going to wait after more bugs are squashed and there actuallyisuser-made content.
 
D

Duppin_sl

shitlord
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I don't think my issue is one that is overall going to come up in the game a lot, there's just a weird dip in the story at that point where you don't have any cash coming in for two encounters.

I could probably solo it with just me and Coyote, honestly. As others have said, the combat isn't hard.

Troll, it's still fun, but if your tolerance for bugs is low you could wait.
 
lindz

lindz

#DDs
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Vorph_sl said:
So... don't bother trying to use the outfits that boost skills for now. I guess you just stick with quick/str/pure armor. Cyberware also doesn't seem to actually increase your hp. I have 2x leg implants and I'm still at 50hp instead of 66.

And another thing, don't put more than 5 points into your weapon skills. The high-skill abilities (Double Tap in my case) don't actually appear in the selection box when you're attacking an enemy. It's not just rifle either, I've seen people reporting the bug for other skills too.
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With clothes, I have an int of 8 (base 7) and I wasn't able to do an int check of 5. No idea why. There seem to be some bugs still. :\
 
Vorph

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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lindz_sl said:
With clothes, I have an int of 8 (base 7) and I wasn't able to do an int check of 5. No idea why. There seem to be some bugs still. :\
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Someone mentioned that on Steam forums too. I was wondering if it subtracted instead of added, but when I raised my Decking to 6 and still had the +1 outfit on, it did let me download the data. Not sure it was worth 12 karma to get a 1500? payday though. Money is a non-issue from that mission until the end.
 
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Commander Vimeseh_sl

shitlord
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No clue Zhaun. I do have to say that I never noticed a significant difference in damage when my guys took a hit with or without mage armor in place. At least for the release campaign none of the combat is hard enough to notice the impact of bugged abilities or stats, however stuff like not being able to take a dialogue path when you technically have the stats needed is pretty irritating. I never ran in to it in my play through though. Played a maxed out wisdom/body/Quickness mage and only had two etiquette which worked when their time came up.
 
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Grez

Trakanon Raider
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Zhaun_sl said:
Makes me wonder if stat boots only help for calculations maybe?

Does "Armor" actually work?
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Not that I ever saw: I armored-out(~8 armor) my rifle-wielding (shotguns >> rifles btw) ninja and my guy never took less damage than any of the other runners.
 
Pyros

Pyros

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I felt like my samurai(10 base armor, +3 buff) was tanking a ton better than the others, but at the same time the others rarely got hit and only by like magic projectiles or shit like that which I don't think armor would do anything against anyway. Also might be biased observation because they had less body(so they lost more bar % from a hit due to having less total health). So don't know if it works or what. The additional stats do seem to work from my experience but them working in dialogues is a different thing. But like I think I had 16 strength(with 9base) and I couldn't miss on anything pretty much. Even last boss I had 99% chance to hit.
 
khalid

khalid

Unelected Mod
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Are mages just weak in this game or do they get stronger later? My main character is a mage and I usually feel like he is one of the weakest in the party. I have 8/8 atm in his primary stats but my spells don't seem to do alot of damage. Everyonce in awhile Ill get a nice manaball off that by hitting 3 or 4 enemies will seem awesome, but his single target damage is ass compared to what my adepts/samuri are doing.
 
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