Shadowrun Returns

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
I think the armor impacts the calculation that determines if you take a x1.5 x1.0 or x0.5 damage hit. Armor, Tough, Quick and Dodge leaning you towards x0.5 and weapon stat/skill/etc towards x1.5.


In other news, I have a 7 Int, a +1 Int item, and it is telling me I can't pick a lock requiring 5 Int. So... ?
 
2,122
3
Are mages just weak in this game or do they get stronger later? My main character is a mage and I usually feel like he is one of the weakest in the party. I have 8/8 atm in his primary stats but my spells don't seem to do alot of damage. Everyonce in awhile Ill get a nice manaball off that by hitting 3 or 4 enemies will seem awesome, but his single target damage is ass compared to what my adepts/samuri are doing.
My mage never really reached super high levels of single target damage. However she brought a ton of utility with petrify, confuse, and mind wipe. Haste her with the shaman and she can cc 3 people in two turns for multiple rounds. Added bonus is the confused enemy will attack other enemies over attacking your squad. You can also get pretty obscene with fireballs/manaballs on grouped enemies.

edit:

Mage + shaman + melee + shotgun user was the strongest setup I came across. Toss the shotgun user for a decker in missions that required one.
 

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
11,699
5,527
I switched my decker to the 10 armor outfit and would usually have the +3 buff up as well, and I barely took any damage at all the entire final mission. Armor seems to work very well against all types of damage.

Some final thoughts on the stat system after beating it:
(Don't read if you don't want to know about stat caps before you finish the game.)
Basically you can stop at 6 in almost any stat, and you'll be fine. The only exceptions seem to be chi casters and riggers, they actually get upgrades all the way.

Quickness - The accuracy boost is noticeable for sure, but 6+2 (2x leg cyberware) is plenty. Not being able to actually use Double Tap at Rifle 6 was very disappointing, and I ended up raising Shotgun to 6 as well instead of wasting more on Quick/Rifle. Kneecapper on overwatch and the burst attack from the auto-shotgun were very handy. Dodge I kept capped out to the same level as my quickness (+2 from upgraded leg implants) and it seemed to help a lot. Other runners took a fair bit a damage in missions, while my decker was never even close to being in danger even before I raised Body up.

Strength - I assume it's the same deal with the bugs as quickness, but that's for the next character.

Int/Decking/ESP - 5 was plenty except for the one 6 check which is only 1500 nuyen anyway. Decking isn't as bad as a lot of people make it out to be, but I never used the to-hit buff at all and I let the elf dude do the decking in the serum mission. ESP I found to be completely useless and put zero points into it. Never used medkits at all either.

Charisma - 4 is plenty for all conversation checks, and the only etiquettes that have any real benefit are Shadowrunner and Academic. Corporate and Security showed up maybe 2 or 3 times each, but they don't actually do anything special. Shamans don't even seem to get a whole lot of benefit past 6 either, just Hellstorm Barrier.

Body - I took this to 9 (elf max) and had 89 hp at the end of the game, despite having two of the upgraded leg implants. Still, there was nothing else worth spending points on.

Willpower - 5 seems like a good amount even for non-casters. Spells missed me a lot as long as they weren't AOE. Mages get all their spell slots/unlocks at 6, and only chi caster spells have the really high reqs.

Total karma in the campaign is 229 if you're curious, unless I missed something. Almost too much really, given the lack of any real need to raise individual things past 6. For people making their own campaigns, I would probably suggest to keep it down around 190-200.

Anyone else notice that runners don't always have the skills/spells that they say they do when you hire them? I hired the troll shaman (Lamia something?) for most missions and she had a totem spell in place of something else after the mission started.
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,307
2,415
CC is a bit redundant when you can kill everything though. Mostly I liked having a mage in my team for the buffs and the heal, and sometimes the potential aoe. When he popped I started using the hybrid runner that's like mage/shaman support, he has Haste, Fire Traps, Fog, Armor, Accuracy and Heal. Pretty much spent all his turns buffing/healing only and sometimes dropping traps, it was nice to have only one slot do everything. Then rest could be pretty much any combination you wanted, I generally went with 3 cause I wanted to save money(which was pretty useless since there's no that much to buy), me as samurai melee and whichever NPC was helping for that mission.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,420
53,867
ESP noticeably increases how powerful your programs are, but decking is easy enough that it doesn't really matter.
 
2,122
3
Well I went mage for my main character so she got used for cc and spot heals. Once people tinker with the combat AI and we get some hard campaigns in the workshop I think mages will be a core group member. For this campaign though, Pyros is right.
 

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
11,699
5,527
Yeah, that dwarf support mage was really handy. And cheap by the end of the game too; for some reason the cost of the good runners is 1000 nuyen while the fixer ones are 2400.

ESP noticeably increases how powerful your programs are, but decking is easy enough that it doesn't really matter.
Right, I just never used ESPs after finding out they were consumables. Decking is all about Degrade.
 

Budos

Golden Knight of the Realm
593
10
I'm working on making a new character builder editor scenario. Choose weapons, karma, items,et al. After that will be making a mini-campaign.

The "Life on a Limb" campaign (available here) is really good -- it's all open world, random encounters, lootable corpses, etc. And you will die.. lots. It's made for characters to be 200+ karma spent, or to be imported after completing the main campaign.

As far as the save/checkpoint system goes, it saves every new scene/zone you enter.
 
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I will say one thing I found disappointing was the lack of in combat options. For instance...

The basilisk creation facility from the alpha game play footage no longer allows you to run to the terminal on the wall and gas the basilisks so you don't have to deal with all of them, and you didn't actually have to sluethe out the locaton and get in any pre fights either. You just got the quest handed to you in the Seamstress' Union and get teleported to the facility.

I was really looking forward to some neat in fight stuff like that and it was sorely lacking.
 

Zhaun_sl

shitlord
2,568
2
I will say one thing I found disappointing was the lack of in combat options. For instance...

The basilisk creation facility from the alpha game play footage no longer allows you to run to the terminal on the wall and gas the basilisks so you don't have to deal with all of them, and you didn't actually have to sluethe out the locaton and get in any pre fights either. You just got the quest handed to you in the Seamstress' Union and get teleported to the facility.

I was really looking forward to some neat in fight stuff like that and it was sorely lacking.
I have found, after playing through up to a point with one character, then restarting and making it back to the same point, different stats impact the game so you end up with slightly different options you may not have available with another character.

edit: Some of these options you never see at all as being available without the proper stats. They just aren't there or invisible.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,420
53,867
Right, I just never used ESPs after finding out they were consumables. Decking is all about Degrade.
They aren't consumable, I don't even know why they are listed as consumable. They last the entire game, even if one gets destroyed in the matrix.
 

Budos

Golden Knight of the Realm
593
10
They aren't consumable, I don't even know why they are listed as consumable. They last the entire game, even if one gets destroyed in the matrix.
And don't count as inventory. Decking is a nice thing to invest a little nuyen in (The Excalibur is 5k, ESP's are 500/ea @ 3 total, and spells you can use w/e).
 

Pyros

<Silver Donator>
11,307
2,415
How does Decking interact with Rigger bots, like if you have 2 bots up which reduces your AP by 2 per turn to control them, do you have reduced AP in the Matrix too? I wanted to check but it takes forever to get to a place the decker can dive and wondering if I should go guns instead.
 

Gavinmad

Mr. Poopybutthole
44,420
53,867
Pretty sure it's based entirely off how many AP your deck has. I had the 3 ap deck with only 2 ap in the real world, and it gave me 3 ap. No clue if your drones would remain active while you were in the matrix, but I assume they would.
 

Vorph

Silver Baronet of the Realm
11,699
5,527
In other news, I have a 7 Int, a +1 Int item, and it is telling me I can't pick a lock requiring 5 Int. So... ?
Oops?
rrr_img_38081.png


Guess that explains why it worked for me, as I had exactly 5 int during that section. It's not a game-breaker though, since there's a better way to get past that particular puzzle that doesn't require any stat check at all.

Also, every single stat check in the game usesbaseinstead ofcurrent. Derp. The use ofPlayer Character 0vs.ActiveActoris inconsistent as well. Sometimes you can get a NPC to do it for you (like the Decking 6 check during the optional mission I mentioned this morning as a bug), other times they only look at the PC's stats. Seems to me you should only usePlayer Character 0during conversations, and not when interacting with terminals, etc.

Edit:
Some of these options you never see at all as being available without the proper stats. They just aren't there or invisible.
Can you give an example of this? I can't find one, nor does it seem that it's even possible the way the editor is designed.

Edit2: nm, I see how you do it now. Doesn't seem used a whole lot in the campaign though. Mostly it's stuff like checking to see if you've done something or if you have certain abilities. For example:

(spoilers, very first mission)
In the first mission where you're rescuing Coyote, there's the hidden stairway up to the top. In addition to being able to open it with a CHA 4 or STR 4 check, there's a CHA 3 check only visible if you know the stairs are there. Also, a rigger can use their drone to open the door, and a shaman can summon a fire elemental on the stove in the apartment that causes the occupant to open the door.

The framework for the 'gas the basilisks' thing is still there, but something must not have worked right because it looks like they disconnected it from everything you can interact with, and then changed the goal of the mission.
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
3,264
2,720
Patch 1.0.1
Fix for issue with final battle occasionally not advancing.
Fix for issue with AI occasionally not using self-buffs and IC Charge.

Version number is listed inside your PDA

Seems lite for 250 mb.
 

Pancreas

Vyemm Raider
1,137
3,838
I got bored with my adept and decided to restart. I made an elf Decker/Rigger that uses rifles.
Here are some observations:
I noticed a bug involving the vents and other areas the Drones can get into... some of these vents will reduce your drones available AP by 1 permanently. At least this happened during the last mission. Drone should have had 3 ap with the bonus, but was stuck on 2 ap all the way to the final boss fight.

Stacking the decker marked target skill, the mage aiming buff and full auto is a good way to kill anything in 1 round.

Double tap seems to increase the crit chance of the double fire mode on rifles.

Some silly exploits can be had with drones in certain areas being able to pop out of a vent, shoot and pop back in until everything is dead. Really tedious and boring to do however.

I stacked armor at the end using the 10 armor suit and dermal plating. I only had 5 invested in body and never really felt like I was in danger. I also stayed back and used cover, letting the drone scout out ahead. Armor does reduce damage taken by a good amount. I think it might effect the chance that enemies do a weak strike against you as well... not entirely certain on that though.

I think most missions can be soloed except for where the game forces you to have a partner, the decking phase of the aegis mission where the security groups are attacking from the two elevators and possibly the final boss fight.

As a final note... Naming your Rigger "Obama" is awesome. First because he uses drone strikes to kill people, just like the real Obama. And Second, you get to see people say "thanks Obama".
 

Agraza

Registered Hutt
6,890
521
Game is dull. Too much exposition, not enough action. This is like FFT, but the fights are less interesting and the story between fights is both tedious and verbose.
 

Lusiphur

Peasant
595
47
Finished it with a custom decker and stats all over the place. Some thoughts.

Agree with Vorph about CHA, just get the 2 he recommends and leave it.
The final level was a humongous pain in the ass. Having the bugs go ghost and then stripping 2AP from your Aegis wielders was just tedious. Whatever asshole put a -AP attack on the ghosts needs slapping.
I ran with me (decker) using pistol, the 16 dam one you get at the end seemed fine.
The dwarf utility mage is pretty damn useful, although keeping him alive was a pain. Seeing a heal land for 1 on a char with next to no HP makes you cry.
I ran with the +1 INT decker armor. It was useless.
Harlequin seemed under powered to me. Maybe I just enjoyed that campaign book too much
wink.png

Had a whale of a time though and can't wait for some DLC and decent user content. I think we will need a thread for that come the time.