SOE Becomes Daybreak / Russian shutdown

Utnayan · Feb 12, 2015

Convo_sl said:
Lol Smed needs to go. It's pretty obvious. Fucked up of he really chose the option the way it was presented in the article. Not that it would surprise me.

Anyone with a pulse that was looking to purchase SOE would have fired those inept bafoons at a moments notice because anyone with the same pulse knows that the people in management which are now rightfully out the door, are the same ones that destroyed a lot of projects and project success in this genre with their most unearned ridiculous egos. People like Danuser, who kissed ass running a web site and somehow got in (I do not think he still has ever shipped a fucking game) and Butler with his complete ineptitude of managing projects, Georgeson who is fucking themost clueless idiot in the industry and doesn't even know what the current design doc is on the game is he is currently producing - these people are the epitome of epic delusion within the ego of the industry. A few asshats that secured some high paying salaries for minimal effort on the buddy system by playing the political hierarchy within SOE well enough to do so.

Here is hoping these asses never, ever, ever, again touch a game company. Danuser can go back to running a fansite where he fucking belongs. And let's start getting some good people behind the genre that we know can go places when it isn't being guides by fucks like Firor, Sage, Butler, McQuaid, Danuser, Georgeson, et all. Now if Zenimax would close down Battlecry and ship Vogel off to the same island these misfits land, maybe we can start seeing some progress within the genre again.

But, I would venture, they killed the entire space to the point where no one will take a risk anymore.

Vitality · Feb 12, 2015

I'm with Ut on this one, go back and watch last weeks landmark dev update video, the producer bro was explaining what was being developed in the game to both the viewers and Georgeson. The poor guy had literally no idea what was going on.

Kuro · Feb 12, 2015

If you put all of the incompetents in one company, the Universe's natural tendency towards spitefulness would guarantee that company by sheer random fumbling in the dark produced The Best Game Ever.

Muligan · Feb 12, 2015

Just don't go looking around too much. Between MMORPG.com, Youtube, and just random idiots in cyberspace, they think Georgeson is some type of gaming genius.

To me, he's one of those guys that smiles and talks enough to make you think he's steering the ship and is in charge when in reality he's just a cars salesman.

I guess that's a gift in itself but it benefits no one but him.

Convo · Feb 12, 2015

The irony is the industry will be brought back up by ex players tired of shitty mmos being made. It's already happening. Lots of noob indie studios popping up to make games. only a matter of time before a new MMO hit.

Flc_sl · Feb 12, 2015

Dullahan_sl said:
You can't possibly believe that. I'm sure its a coincidence that both Vanguard and now Pantheon are fundamentally identical to classic EQ. Meanwhile, the IP changed drastically immediately after he departed and in his absence, the sequels have both been as far from the original as possible.

Name your top five favorite design decisions of EverQuest at launch, and I'll show you how they were directly lifted from a text-based DIKU-MUD called Sojourn that Brad played for years. The mechanics and design comparison was so similar - including copy/pasted skill and spell lists for every class - that the DIKU team sued and only backed off when they received a signed affidavit from Smed and Brad that they hadn't ripped off the DIKU source code.

Just because Brad is constantly trying to reinvent his experience as a MUD player with new games doesn't make him a visionary.

Urlithani · Feb 12, 2015

From PS2 subreddit:

Don't hate on Columbus Nova/DayBreak : Planetside

Hey guys,
I came on to say goodbye to you guys (at least in my current role, prepare for lurking), but after scanning the front page I wanted to change the flavor of the post a bit.
Columbus Nova deserves no hate in all this. They are more like white knights than negative forces here. SOE needed a shake up/new direction, and CN provided that. They have done nothing but been gracious in their new ownership, and they went out of their way to make sure that Devs and support teams that got laid off were taken care of. Right now things seem shitty, and of course for the folks that were let go, today was rough, but CN and DB were both very open about the need for restructuring. This wasn't a surprise to folks in the company.
Gaming is a tough industry, and not for everyone. I've seen lots of people come and go, both good and otherwise. The fact is, there are no (or at least, extremely few) permanent gaming jobs. If you want to have just one job in your career, don't pick gaming, or even computer software. It's just the nature of the beast in such a pioneering industry. But the flip side is that there is always a new opportunity awaiting, it just may require a move to a new location or some other sacrifice.
Most of the let go folks will be working in the gaming industry soon. The rest may decide to move on to other, less volatile lines of work. But no one I talked to regrets their time making games for folks to enjoy. It's a rare job that lets you bring pleasure to so many people's lives.
Back to the subject - if you guys feel angry or betrayed, it would be misdirected to place that at the feet of the new company. They didn't bring in new staff to replace us, or say we did a shitty job and treat us poorly - they looked at the bottom line and the numbers just didn't line up. The new layout lines up now, and the goal is that DB can be successful and move on from this and eventually expand again. Saying "I'm cancelling my sub" or "I'm never buying another thing in PS2" isn't the right tactic, as much as the former Devs appreciate the intent of your support. If you want to make a positive impact, then keep doing what you're doing - if you like the game, play it. Give feedback. Get your friends to play. Buy what you want to, and what you feel gives you value. If you aren't happy, tell DB through the means you do now, social media and /bug reports. The game will grow or shrink depending on how you guys act, which is how it should be. If you make a statement on principal for the dearly departed devs, you will be hurting the remaining staff who have worked just as hard to make you guys a game you like to play. They may not be all names you know, but trust me, they put their blood, sweat, and tears into this.
TL;DR - CN didn't do this, it was something that had to be done. CN is providing a chance for the games you love to continue going
-David C, former PS2 Producer
Edit: Ugh seeing the 'former dev' post header brought things home; I'll miss you and your well-meaning pitchforks :-(

Vitality · Feb 12, 2015

Convo_sl said:
The irony is the industry will be brought back up by ex players tired of shitty mmos being made. It's already happening. Lots of noob indie studios popping up to make games. only a matter of time before a new MMO hit.

I'm fine with a middle ground of devs that actually play their own game.

tad10 · Feb 12, 2015

Vandyn_sl said:
In my opinion, I think the old school MMO player is always going to be looking for the next big thing. Like a drug user, EQ was the first high and the player has been constantly looking to recapture that initial high (and like a drug addict, it'll never happen).

I used to agree with the drug analogy (and probably used exactly your formulation). However, having spent more time on my peak in the Himalayas gazing at my navel, I now recognize it is flawed.

The proper analogy is that of moving from one girlfriend to the next and then to the next. You love your first girlfriend in High School, despite her flaws, but you eventually breakup because of college or alcohol. You're next girlfriend may or may not be qualitatively better (prettier, less psycho, whatever) it doesn't matter because you'll never feel for her the way you did for that first girlfriend so she'll only ever be a rebound. You don't get over your first girlfriend until you break up with that second girlfriend. So at that point: when you're looking for girlfriend #3, you are ready to fully commit again.... However, the catch this time is that now having a little experience under your belt you're not going to settle for just any girl for girlfriend #3 (especially since you can just hookup up with random girls until the right one finally shows up).

Point being - you can absolutely recapture that initial Oxytocin/Dopamine high if enough time has passed between your first MMO and current MMO and (and this is the big and) there is something qualitatively better in the new MMO (that was my emphasis on the +/++ part of Wow+ or EQ++). I did not find Rift in beta to be qualitatively better than EQ, WoW or VG.

Second point being - drug analogy is actually just an excuse for MMOs that really aren't much of an improvement over WoW or EQ.

tad10 · Feb 12, 2015

Utnayan_sl said:
Anyone with a pulse that was looking to purchase SOE would have fired those inept bafoons at a moments notice because anyone with the same pulse knows that the people in management which are now rightfully out the door

Last I checked, Smed was still running the organization. You still have a soft spot for him Ut?

Japanfour_sl · Feb 12, 2015

funny thing about people like mcquaid, smedley and georgeson is that fans and people that cant read past the first two sentences of fucking anything think these people are responsible for the success of things. This seems to be a problem with older generations, namely white people that have "management skills". They tend to do a great song and dance, and have no knowledge on the technique involved with the dance that they must do. I have lost count on how many managers that have great schmooze based resumes, but when it comes down to doing actual tangible work they have fucking nothing to give but a smiley face and a loose representation of things that they barely understand. I am glad that they are cutting the SOE fat, maybe they will hire a person who is at least willing to understand every angle of whatever they are producing or managing.

Utnayan · Feb 12, 2015

Flc_sl said:
Name your top five favorite design decisions of EverQuest at launch, and I'll show you how they were directly lifted from a text-based DIKU-MUD called Sojourn that Brad played for years. The mechanics and design comparison was so similar - including copy/pasted skill and spell lists for every class - that the DIKU team sued and only backed off when they received a signed affidavit from Smed and Brad that they hadn't ripped off the DIKU source code.

Just because Brad is constantly trying to reinvent his experience as a MUD player with new games doesn't make him a visionary.

This. The guy never did shit. Christ, he even used the same city names. McQuaid is a master con-artist. I feel bad for the folks that really deserve credit for EQ but never got it.

You know what's funny? The same mismanagement within SOE is the SAME shit that happened over at Zenimax Online. Replace Smedley with Firor - Replace Butler with Sage.

Jesus get these people the fuck out of the industry.

Utnayan · Feb 12, 2015

tad10_sl said:
Last I checked, Smed was still running the organization. You still have a soft spot for him Ut?

I still think he got taken in by ass-kissers. But at the end of the day it's his job to cut through that bullshit and get results. I told him he needed to get rid of those people and clean house after the 2nd stop start.

Gecko_sl · Feb 12, 2015

Convo_sl said:
I dunno, I think the released version of rift was a lot closer to Scott's vision for mmos at the time. I'm sure he would have done more with the right circumstances but overall, I think we got what he was intending. Rift was just a collection of what was working at the time. I never believed he was a becon of light for old school mmo concepts. Appreciate his posts and what he did with rift to get it out the door but he ultimately scraped a lot of the better ideas and made rift what it was.

I think the released version was representative of Hartsman the business guy, versus Scott the game developer. I'm pretty sure it was profitable, if not the juggernaut they had hoped for at release.

In my opinion, I think the old school MMO player is always going to be looking for the next big thing. Like a drug user, EQ was the first high and the player has been constantly looking to recapture that initial high (and like a drug addict, it'll never happen).

Most old school MMO people aren't at all interested in those types of games anymore. The lion share of the market never played EQ or UO, and are more interested in Steam sales and console shinies. What you have left get their fix playing WOW for a few months each expansion and then go back to their lives. Even those are shrinking. What we really need is a paradigm shift that attracts Western gamers, not a rehash of Levelquest MMO play.

Punko · Feb 12, 2015

As the years passed it became increasingly obvious to me that EQ was a lucky shot, a combination of unforeseen events and human behavior.

There is absolutely no proof the above isn't true, what have the people that made EQ great supposedly done since? Its all shit.

Technology has moved forward a lot, yet its shitty MMO after shitty MMO.

tad10 · Feb 12, 2015

Japanfour_sl said:
This seems to be a problem with older generations, namely white people that have "management skills".

Racist, ageist bullshit belongs in General. Protip: The Stupid, she knows no age or race.

Urlithani · Feb 12, 2015

I think they could be very profitable if they focus on PS2 and H1Z1 at this point. There isn't another MMOFPS like PS2, and zombie survival games are a market just waiting for a polished game to capture most of the fans:

Planetside 2:

- Work on the ports to PS4 and XBone.
- Optimize the game on all platforms; better focus on gunplay and performance. Better performance means more people can play.
- A solid FPS experience with more players can move them to a pricing scheme where they are more profitable through volume; I'll buy a Trac-5 carbine variant with .2 worse hipfire but .15 better recoil for $3. Right now you want $7? No thanks, I'll pass.
- Stop selling items by making them OP in the beginning then nerfing them after everyone buys the flavor of the month(e.g. Harasser, Engi AV turret, ESF weapons). It made you money in the short term but now people know your reputation; if they buy it, you are going to eventually nerf it. I'm pretty certain this has hurt your sales because more and more people are just not going to buy things right away anymore.

H1Z1:

- Just make a solid, polished zombie apocalypse survival game and you're already light years ahead of the competition. (Haven't played H1Z1 but I know there's money to be made there).

tad10 · Feb 12, 2015

Utnayan_sl said:
I still think he got taken in by ass-kissers. But at the end of the day it's his job to cut through that bullshit and get results. I told him he needed to get rid of those people and clean house after the 2nd stop start.

So yes, you still have a soft spot for him since he would email you directly. The dude is incompetent.

Vitality · Feb 12, 2015

tad10_sl said:
So yes, you still have a soft spot for him since he would email you directly. The dude is incompetent.

How much time do you think it would take you to be in 300+ peoples business down to every detail every day? That's not quite how running a company works.

This guy doesn't make the games.. he hires people to make games. Which is why he fired a ton of people because they weren't doing what he hired them to do. Albeit far later than he probably should have.

Draegan_sl · Feb 12, 2015

Flc_sl said:
Name your top five favorite design decisions of EverQuest at launch, and I'll show you how they were directly lifted from a text-based DIKU-MUD called Sojourn that Brad played for years. The mechanics and design comparison was so similar - including copy/pasted skill and spell lists for every class - that the DIKU team sued and only backed off when they received a signed affidavit from Smed and Brad that they hadn't ripped off the DIKU source code.

Just because Brad is constantly trying to reinvent his experience as a MUD player with new games doesn't make him a visionary.

Did you play Sojourn? I played that shit for years. Sojourn, Toril, Duris, Darkover etc.

SOE Becomes Daybreak / Russian shutdown

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3

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Naxxramas 1.0 Raider

Trakanon Raider

Ahn'Qiraj Raider

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Vyemm Raider

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Elisha Dushku

Elisha Dushku

shitlord

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3

F16 patrolling Rajaah until he plays DS3

shitlord

Macho Ma'am

Elisha Dushku

Vyemm Raider

Elisha Dushku

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