Sports writer kills himself, leaves behind website describing how and why

Dumar_sl said:

So yeah, remember when I said these conversations often make people very uncomfortable? I wasn't kidding btw.

Click to expand...

Those reactions are just typical internet rebuttals to things people feel are nonsensical, bro. If you came in and said "I believe the sky is green because I said so" would you say that people are being made uncomfortable by your statements if they reacted by calling you names and ridiculing your arguments that the sky was, in fact, perfectly green in color?

You have to understand that what Swagdaddy said is right. If you can't find simple enjoyment in a few passions in life, something is wrong in the part of your brain that makes you happy, and you should seek some sort of therapy to help bridge that gap. Life is a good thing. Human society is a good thing. Its not a perfect thing, but it is a good thing. When you sacrifice the good for the perfect you will find yourself eternally unhappy. It truly is a state of mind.

Our culture isn't a cage holding us back, its simply the organic end result of the combination of our biological, psychological and physical/material existences interacting as a continuous whole.

No TV, can't be the best civilization of all time. Its a law.

Sebudai_sl said:

Classic retard argument: everyone is deluded but me! Everyone is a sheep except for me!

Commonly used by the libertarian. The mass media works on everyone except for them, nobody else questions authority, etc.

Click to expand...

It is true that practically everyone is led by the nose by one of the competing entities that rely on influencing your behavior in a plethora of ways, some people freak out when they figure it out but there's no reason not to just view it as another thing on the heap of challenges presented in life. Dumar presents social control as a special aspect of modern society but in truth one form or another of social control has literally existed for at least as long as oral and recorded history.

Dumar_sl said:

I said it's a perfectly rational, sane choice for rational, sane people living in a completely irrational, insane society.

What I'm 'advocating' is a mentally healthy society that rids itself of illusion, of manufactured experiences and feelings, that produces genuine associations and relationships among human, not as among products or things.

Click to expand...

Here's the problem with both these statements, and it feeds back into your continued insistence that our society is insane and all our experiences are only manufactured products, and that since they are manufactured, they aren't real or valid:

1. Most people do not agree that we live in a completely irrational and insane society. You have argued, of course, that Eric Fromm shows that we are an insane and irrational society, and that's your perogative to agree with him on those sentiments. On the one hand, I would argue that by your own description, Fromm entered into his treatise and research with a conclusion already reached, which of course isn't science. On the other hand I would point out that your near religious regard for these authors, some from more than a century ago is very akin to Lumie's continued reliance solely on Pasteur and Newton as the end all be all of biology and physical sciences. While no one can or would discount Marx's or Fromm's contributions to their fields, and certainly Fromm's opinions on human relations are perfectly valid as expressions ofhis point of viewon these matters, what we can say for certainty is that, even if we agree with some aspects, or many aspects of his assertions, we are free to disagree with his conclusion, as stated by you, that our modern human society is essentially a false, material existence that leads to illusory happiness and a false sense of personal well being.

It is arrogance of the utmost extreme to declare that other people's lives and experiences are not valid simply because they do not conform to your definition of what a valid existence consists of. It is condescending nonsense to claim that, for instance, my wife and my (My wife and I? Our? holy shit I have no idea how to state this in a grammatically correct manner, where's my The Elements of Style copy?) mutual experience of conceiving and birthing and raising two children together isn't "real" or "valid" because we live in a modern society in which experiences are "manufactured".

2. You keep using these vague terms like "mentally healthy society" "ridding onesself of illusion" "manufactured experiences and feelings", you insist all our experiences are only manufactured products, and that if they are manufactured, they are invalid experiences. This is easily discounted with a simple thought experiment. A person is reduced to a coma like state with no control of their body, no ability to communicate with the outside world, but doctors are able to attach electrodes to the person's brain, determine that he is fully functioning on a mental level. They then devise an instrument that allows this person to control a manufactured body in the real world by proxy. This person goes on to live a normal life, work a career, receive and education, get married, adopt or produce children through artificial insemination or some other modern method of procreation.

Is that person's life not valid because they lived by proxy in a manufactured body? Of course not.

The very concepts you are trying to explain to others, are based entirely upon presuppositions in your head that you are projecting on to others. Presuppositions that they are rejecting because those presuppositions are condescending and effectively declaring that person's life experiences as invalid before you even know anything about them. Its hubristic, arrogant, condescending nonsense.

Now, define for me what a non manufactured experience would be. I want to know what, in your mind, a non manufactured experience is, and why it is superior to a manufactured one. I also want to know what a "mentally healthy society" looks like, and by whose metric of mental health? Fromm's? Fromm seems to be a pretty biased source to be just allowing him to declare for 7 plus billion people what the standard for mental health should be, don't you think? I sure do. It'd be like asking Bill Graham for his definition of what a mentally healthy, sane society would look like. Mostly just a lot of tyranny, I'd expect, from both sources, quite frankly.

Your argument is, and I want to make this clear, the argument of a religious person, particularly a religious person who rejects modernity because it is materially focused. Its literally the argument of radical muslims and far right wing christian fanatics the world over, that material existence is a false reality, a lie, and illusion perpetrated by Satan to prevent Mankind from interrelating with God the way God intended in nature. Its Ludditian, Christianized fantasy.

What you are pointing to, the dichotomy you are attempting to address exists because modern society has evolved more rapidly than human biology (particularly human brain structures and psychology) do, and we as intelligent beings are able to intuitively sense this dichotomy between the ways our ancestors survived for millions and hundreds of thousands of years, and the way we live now. That's all it is. Humans are living in a society that their bodies and minds have not fully adapted to. That's it. They will, in time, adapt more fully to the lifestyles we live now. It's happening constantly, the entire way the brain functions is being transformed by modern technology in the biology of children right this very instant. Its inevitable. Time happens. Change happens. There won't be any going back to what you consider "authentic, real experiences", and the experiences we have now are just as authentic, just as valid, and just as real as those experiences. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

One final thing: Just because its written in some book somewhere, doesn't make it true. The very assertion

"If we were to experience the world exactly as it is, we'd be too depressed to get out of bed in the morning,"

Click to expand...

is condescending horseshit of the highest variety, it assumes that people don't experience the world exactly as it is, simply because they don't experience the world the way YOU (or in this case the author) DEMAND they experience it. This is just flat out self centered, egotistical, nonsense, and you shouldn't be surprised when people whose entire life experiences you are denigrating and insulting get offended and start to attack you for making those kinds of statements. Its a bit like calling everyone a racist just because you said they are, really. Very similar.