Star Citizen Online - The search for more money

popsicledeath_sl said:

What facts were wrong? How the did you even get a fleeting impression the dude writing that blog post was painting a "picture of a frantic change done mid production with no prior planning."

Fanboys keep citing old quotes point out they've planned 64 bit engine all along. Yeah, that's the point, their entire game depends on it and it's absolutely project critical, so the fact it was a very late announcement was a 'wtf' moment for people. As you said yourself, they've had to go back and try convert and implement a bunch of stuff that was already built and designed. Had they cracked the 64bit problem first, they would have saved a lot of time, resources, and doubts, and good project management dictates that's the biggest risk so you tackle that first, not spend tens of millions and hope the single biggest potential threat to the project's survival just comes along and works out fine along the way.

This all reminds me when people were excited for Vanguard. They'd promised a seamless world. They'd promised and spend resources on a bunch of systems and designs already. The game was going to be awesome. You could even log in and play with some of the systems! Oh, only problem is the game engine was shit, and years into development they were finally happily announcing that this time they were sure they'd finally got the engine stable and working!

Isn't the lesson everyone should have learned from WoW is first master the tech, then open up 'full on development mode.' So, yeah, there are red flags because SC has been in pretty heavy development and suddenly they announce they've almost got engine and fundamental hurdle to the game finally working.

See also: dumb fucking fanboys flaming the author because he mentioned they're design seems dependent on loading screens, but according to fanboys SC won't have loading screens, so the author is obviously and idiot because, duh, SC will have auto-piloted entry-sequences where the game is, get this, loading in the background, but it's not a loading screen because you can run around your ship and it doesn't say 'loading... please wait.' Face palm worthy fanboism in that comments section.

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The insane hostility I see constantly when I dare to bring up facts is just.. ugh.. why do I bother?

It's right there buddy. I took the time to go look up the info on 64bit and posted it. Want me to setup a slideshow?

They started the process of conversion most likely in early 2014. You cannot start the process of conversion, which this dev says multiple times, without a plan. That means they had a plan in place way back in 2013 at the latest. CR's comments on the issue first surfaced about 5 months after KS back when we didn't even have a Hangar. The Hangar module came out in August 2013. His comment about the issue of double precision was in April 2013.

Almost every major engine was tested with SC before CryEngine was settled on. That one I didn't know about until he mentioned it around the time of CitCon.

Anyway for a couple of other issues with this devs' take on things head over toReddit here. I think the guy who posted a rebuttal did an OK job covering some of the other issues. I'm not going to rehash it here when someone else has already done it. If someone feels really strongly about this they can read that. I would say I agree with what he wrote although I found some other details he didn't and mentioned it here.

So again this idea that double precision not being investigated from early on is missleading since CR was clearly aware of this and still hadn't fixated on a solution until later in 2013.

You can however accurately state that 64 bit double precision conversion wasn't planned or started from day 1. There is nothing suggesting CR planned from day 1 to do that since he initially planned to make the game zones limited to what CryEngine would allow. This is entirely due to the limit in funding he could get from backers and hopefully Angel Investors and maybe a Publisher if he could get them on board. It wasn't until the game had insane funding that he realized he could fund a solution to this problem which clearly occurred sometime in 2013. As this dev points out 64 bit conversion is expensive and difficult. However stating that it started half way through development is completely false. A more accurate statement would be that Star Citizen's 64 bit conversion was floundering half way through development. Because that's exactly what was happening until the Frankfurt office took over that project in late 2014 and completed it this past Summer.

Honestly it seems like we are arguing over semantics so this is the last time I will bring up dates. It's pointless.

The most critical point that this dev points out with having converted the engine, not all of it by the way just the parts that matter, to 64 bit is the fallout as a result. It causes a huge amount of issues. As he also stated having converted the engine this past Summer seems to have released a logjam at CIG and has allowed rapid progress elsewhere. That's his opinion. Honestly I have no idea. My view on it is that they had something like, correct me if I'm wrong, 16 different dev builds and the core ones have come near completion. 64 bit conversion just happened to occur around this same time. To think that most of development occurred in the space of 6-9 months seems unlikely. I think it just seems that way because they have staffed up, had projects near completion and a lot of parts just fell into place. It's not that 64 bit conversion didn't help but that seems to help them more with the end product features like the zone system and has squat to do with the insane amount of assets they have been building.

TLDR: Even the dev in that blog post admits that whatever CIG did with 64 bit they immediately resolved the issues he was most concerned about. People here and elsewhere instead fixated on his comment about the timeline of the 64 bit rollout and what possible issues it may cause. Selective Reading much?

Not a shill. Just dumb with hope. It's all good, we've all been there at some point.

You seem to be the one fixating on very select comments, very emotionally, and you're accusing others of selective reading? In fact, you very kind fellow, you claim people here are fixating on things when, actually, YOU were the first person to provide any specific commentary on the article. And your commentary was very emotional, defensive, absurd, wrong, and exhibited poor reading comprehension.

Again, if you were alive to see Vanguard, similar things happened. Huge budget being pumped into art, world building and building a ton of systems and designs in a microcosm. Then, well into development they start bragging about how they almost have the game engine and chunking solved! Well, turns out they had to backward engineer a bunch of shit, re-code a bunch of shit, etc, to get the game even playable and STILL some features and systems never worked right with their engine and their desperation to provide a 'seamless' world.

First build the tech, then respond to the tech by figuring out what you can afford to implement within it. Pretty simple, and by all accounts that isn't what SC is doing. And the only real criticism in that article is that it can be risky, time consuming and expensive to do that, which seems fair and accurate. Let's be honest, if your panties hadn't already been so ruffled by Derek Smart and his antics you probably wouldn't be so defensive over an article that had very little offense.

popsicledeath_sl said:

Not a shill. Just dumb with hope. It's all good, we've all been there at some point.

You seem to be the one fixating on very select comments, very emotionally, and you're accusing others of selective reading? In fact, you very kind fellow, you claim people here are fixating on things when, actually, YOU were the first person to provide any specific commentary on the article. And your commentary was very emotional, defensive, absurd, wrong, and exhibited poor reading comprehension.

Again, if you were alive to see Vanguard, similar things happened. Huge budget being pumped into art, world building and building a ton of systems and designs in a microcosm. Then, well into development they start bragging about how they almost have the game engine and chunking solved! Well, turns out they had to backward engineer a bunch of shit, re-code a bunch of shit, etc, to get the game even playable and STILL some features and systems never worked right with their engine and their desperation to provide a 'seamless' world.

First build the tech, then respond to the tech by figuring out what you can afford to implement within it. Pretty simple, and by all accounts that isn't what SC is doing. And the only real criticism in that article is that it can be risky, time consuming and expensive to do that, which seems fair and accurate. Let's be honest, if your panties hadn't already been so ruffled by Derek Smart and his antics you probably wouldn't be so defensive over an article that had very little offense.

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Care to mention something I'm wrong on? I'm not saying I'm never wrong. Hell I fuck up all the time and I'm running on mostly coffee and 5hr of sleep all week so chances are I probably did fuck up. But if that's the overall perception I would rather address it and correct it than let it fester.

Still haven't heard anything from anyone that refutes anything I wrote so far so it's hard for me to respond to what amounts to "You're a fucking retard because you are a fucking retard." Ok elaborate with a single fact maybe? Because your first attempt was completely full of hot air without a shred of information in it.

Also I was around for Vanguard. Pre-ordered the Collector's Ed and was in the Alpha/Beta test. Soon as they announced a release date I cancelled my pre-order. So there's that.

Draegan_sl said:

Cinge stop being a twat.

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Sorry I just call it like I see it, especially when its very obvious.

Eidal_sl said:

Variise isn't a shill; he is a passionate supporter. I can't blame him; I wish I had that optimism. We're all hoping an MMO comes out that makes us say "wow" again, Variise just happens to be heavily invested in a long-shot.

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Which is why it creates a cult like following, people are so heavily invested in the dream of what SC "represents", and they want to play it and be a part of it so bad, that they'll do anything to fight a challenge to that belief.

So you honestly think that company is paying some dude to post in this message board? Or are you just making dumb tired jokes because you don't like listening to a non crazy fanboy defend a game you hate or dislike?

Thread is looking way too much like the Pantheon thread. There can only be one!

^Payed to defend the shills!


Fucking Convo combo breaker.

Draegan_sl said:

So you honestly think that company is paying some dude to post in this message board? Or are you just making dumb tired jokes because you don't like listening to a non crazy fanboy defend a game you hate or dislike?

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I wouldn't be shocked companies do that at all(And they probably scour as many forums/social media as they can). And no most likely not, as I said, its probably more self imposed PR work. This game, because of how it was funded, has made people crazy.

And I don't hate or dislike the game at all. Actually its pretty sweet, if it's actually what they promised and ever gets released.

There seems to be the same amount of obsession though for people to shit all over anything related to the game though. Much like I do in the Pantheon thread!

Don't follow the game or care for the setting but this game failing would really suck. Too much money behind it and there would be a ripple effect.

Abefroman_sl said:

There seems to be the same amount of obsession though for people to shit all over anything related to the game though. Much like I do in the Pantheon thread!

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Probably. Though I would guess a lot of its trolling, because the responses you get from the cult are hilarious. Also the fact that so many people have put unheard of cash into "promises" , they make easy targets.

Convo_sl said:

Don't follow the game or care for the setting but this game failing would really suck. Too much money behind it and there would be a ripple effect.

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It failing and the huge negative effect it might have on the whole scam that is crowdfunding, would be the only reason I would ok with it failing.

Cinge_sl said:

Sorry I just call it like I see it, especially when its very obvious.

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I don't post anywhere else because you guys don't play the games I do. Way too many console games and other games I have no interest in.

Also if this was a sock puppet account it would have comments all over the fucking place to make it highly unlikely to ever be noticed. There is an entire industry on this form of corrosive marketing and it's used heavily by major corporations including the Entertainment industry. There have been suggestions EA and others used it in the past and I wouldn't put it past them. It would be part of their PR budgets which, as I mentioned elsewhere, is often larger than the game budgets the marketing is designed for. This is by no means unusual which is a sad statement on the current gaming industry.

You are completely in the right to question because it is a very real problem. However realize that they would have no use for an account like mine. It would stick out like a sore thumb. Today's sock puppet accounts have extensive histories in many threads and the more varied the better. Plus the older they are the more valuable they are.

Another thing. These forms of marketing campaigns are designed around release schedules. Some low level campaign would be used to make comments to keep interest going to keep it in conversation. Negativity would not be helpful and usually those people have dozens of accounts they can randomly access to make comments to quiet dissent. I personally experienced this on /r/masseffect over on Reddit a lot. The issue is that even people that aren't shills will begin to believe them because that's what so many people are saying so it must be true. How it really works is someone with shill accounts will upvote a thread and make one or two cute comments in hopes of making it to front page and chances are people will latch onto that than anything substantive in a top comment. It's all usually just hot air with zero actual information and virtually never ever any dissent.

It's why I haven't really visited /r/gaming much in the past few years and carefully parry NeoGaf comments and just look for facts instead.

TLDR: If I was a sock puppet I would be blowing hot air up your ass and not bothering to waste hours looking up facts for thankless assholes who turn around and throw it in my face. P.S. Not directed at you.

Convo_sl said:

Don't follow the game or care for the setting but this game failing would really suck. Too much money behind it and there would be a ripple effect.

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As that dev mentioned, and I think he is right, it would devastate KS and other projects. The only ones left standing would be the few who have pushed out games already and have a proven track record. That's going to be a short list.

He also rightly points out that the inane echo chamber people create by blindly shitting on SC can become a self fulfilling prophecy if it kills the funding which CIG relies on to keep staffing up. Wouldn't shock me if they dumped a minimum o 1/3 of their staff right after release and let another 1/3 go within a year. This is pretty standard fair for game development but it's so public in CIG's case that it's likely to have once again have detractors everywhere come out of the woodwork screaming that this is finally truly an end and everyone should bail ASAP. Watch this happen because I think it would complete the circle. Interestingly nobody blinks when other dev studios lay staff off.

And if you think I'm once again blowing hot air look what happened in the last round of Derek Smart blowing his horn that they are closing shop and people panicking when it was a re-org and they hired 3x the staff they let go in the same couple of weeks. It's insane how low brow this bombardment of bullshit is against the game.

So yeah I don't know man. I think you can totally expect a fucking world ending screaming fest the moment the project ends and far too many people will be shitting bricks or getting popcorn waiting to see if the world will burn any minute now... just like they have been saying for years.

Not looking forward to that. I just want to play the fucking game at release and shut all that bullshit out.

Cinge_sl said:

Probably. Though I would guess a lot of its trolling, because the responses you get from the cult are hilarious. Also the fact that so many people have put unheard of cash into "promises" , they make easy targets.



It failing and the huge negative effect it might have on the whole scam that is crowdfunding, would be the only reason I would ok with it failing.

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What scam? Every project I backed has completed ending up with a good game. The only failure I experienced was a project that didn't meet it's initial goal and had to fold for now.

Maybe do a better job researching the project and more carefully pledge your money? Just a suggestion.

Abefroman_sl said:

There seems to be the same amount of obsession though for people to shit all over anything related to the game though. Much like I do in the Pantheon thread!

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I agree with this!

Variise_sl said:

Care to mention something I'm wrong on? I'm not saying I'm never wrong. Hell I fuck up all the time and I'm running on mostly coffee and 5hr of sleep all week so chances are I probably did fuck up. But if that's the overall perception I would rather address it and correct it than let it fester.

Still haven't heard anything from anyone that refutes anything I wrote so far so it's hard for me to respond to what amounts to "You're a fucking retard because you are a fucking retard." Ok elaborate with a single fact maybe? Because your first attempt was completely full of hot air without a shred of information in it.

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Reads a very technical, boring, constructive and fair article about Star Citizen... missed the main points of the article... comes to message board to refute it with facts that nobody disputes.... claims facts prove "That hardly paints a picture of a frantic change done mid production with no prior planning" when nothing in the article would lead anyone who isn't hype-dumb to come to that conclusion you're trying to refute in the first place.

Fact: nowhere in the article does it refute the point they've been planning a 64 bit engine. Fact: the point of addressing it was because it's a huge technical hurdle that logic dictates you attempt to solve BEFORE pressing on with other costly production and design that may have to be changed or converted once that hurdle is tackled. Fact: You yourself seem to agree they're having to backtrack and time extra time and money away from the project to convert shit to 64bit processing when they could have just built it that way in the first place if it hadn't taken so long for them to finally solve that technical hurdle.

That's ALL the fucking article was trying to outline in regards to the announcement and why a lot of people had the opinion that if they just solved that problem, then in a sense they also just started actually attempting to build a coherent, functional game. Which is why a lot of people were like 'rut-roh' at such a late announcement and assumed they'd already solved the problem a long time ago and just weren't announcing it. Of course, Derek Smart being the most egregious of the people expressing doubts. The same guy worthless Star Cult tards actually, literally refer to as 'he who will not be named' like they're in a fucking Harry Potter book.

So, again, the article was pretty banal and about as unoffensive as a dev blog can be.... and you came here to defend the project because all you got out of is you thinking someone was trying to paint a picture of 'frantic change mid production with no prior planning' when only a fucking idiot would think that after reading that article.

So, yeah, now after all this you're just a fucking retard because you are a fucking retard.

You talk too much.