Star Trek: Discovery

iannis

iannis

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To me the allusion was always that Whoopie was a sort of divergent Q herself, masquerading. Or that her race could have been Q if they wanted to be, but realized that the Q entity is basically just extrapolated imperialist evil and went a different way with it.

TNG was straightforward with the paintbrush, and used pretty wide strokes. She just represented a fundamentally different philosophy about the methods, uses, responsibilities, and right of power.
 
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fucker_sl

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Q are all but imperialist evil. They are a depressed race with suicide tendencies with unlimited power

in no ST serie we have seen any Q do something out of vicious evil. Cause trouble for boredom or indifference ? yes. but not cruelty
 
Jait

Jait

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Iannis_sl said:
To me the allusion was always that Whoopie was a sort of divergent Q herself, masquerading. Or that her race could have been Q if they wanted to be, but realized that the Q entity is basically just extrapolated imperialist evil and went a different way with it.

TNG was straightforward with the paintbrush, and used pretty wide strokes. She just represented a fundamentally different philosophy about the methods, uses, responsibilities, and right of power.
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I remember very well their first episode together. And that's exactly what I thought. It was more about "Who is she?" than "Who is Q?".
 
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Jefferson_sl

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Jait_sl said:
I remember very well their first episode together. And that's exactly what I thought. It was more about "Who is she?" than "Who is Q?".
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This all stems from the fact that Whoopi Goldberg just kind of said "can I be in the show?" and being a huge star at the time they couldn't just turn her down. The role of Guinan was created for her but it was unclear exactly what her backstory was other than she is a sounding board for Picard. They kind of decided she was an ancient being with some amount undefined power but pretty much dropped that story because really, who can challenge the Q but still be wiped out by the Borg?

Guinan was a fantastic non-bridge crew member who could help with exposition and could move the plot along and she was also good for working out problems for the crew because Troi was as fucking useless as a guidance counselor as she was an empath/telepath.
 
iannis

iannis

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Tossing the ship into borg space just to "teach them a lesson" is pretty much cruel and evil. Continually demanding that Picard defend humanity against nebulous ideas of hatecrime and threatening the race with nonbeing on his failure is pretty imperialistic. The reason they seemed to never be too bothered with it beyond being bored and indifferent is because humanity has not yet reached into any places they esteem. Humanity could spread to cover the entire universe and still not reach into any places they esteem -- but there is a apparently a concern that humanity could reach into places they esteem.

Q was basically the Devil tossed into a secular fable, with a flash of decadence and wit. Q was a warning about what humanity could become (in the TNG universe, at least).
 
Lusiphur

Lusiphur

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Still slogging through Season 2 of DS9 (ep 16 now). You fuckers better be right that it gets good at some point. Right now, I am just skipping through the episodes in 10 min chunks and not missing a damn thing. Utterly predictable stuff
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Malakriss

Malakriss

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I'd say the last 6-7 episodes of season 2 introduces some key roles and then it starts rolling from there.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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You're missing plenty of little stuff from skipping through the episodes in chunks. Nothing ground breaking, but lots of little stuff that you'll see referenced again later.
 
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Jefferson_sl

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Iannis_sl said:
Tossing the ship into borg space just to "teach them a lesson" is pretty much cruel and evil. Continually demanding that Picard defend humanity against nebulous ideas of hatecrime and threatening the race with nonbeing on his failure is pretty imperialistic. The reason they seemed to never be too bothered with it beyond being bored and indifferent is because humanity has not yet reached into any places they esteem. Humanity could spread to cover the entire universe and still not reach into any places they esteem -- but there is a apparently a concern that humanity could reach into places they esteem.

Q was basically the Devil tossed into a secular fable, with a flash of decadence and wit. Q was a warning about what humanity could become (in the TNG universe, at least).
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Or looking at it from another perspective such as that of Q; Q showed the crew just how outmatched they still are. Most of Q's interference has turned out to be fairly benevolent though he does tend to cater to his own amusement while guiding the fledgling race and he does tend to be careless as to how his actions affect those he considers inferior because they are lucky he bothered to acknowledge their existence at all let alone warn them of the dangers they invite home through their exploration. The fact that Humanity claims to have overcome it's own brutality despite having had two recent wars that nearly destroyed the species (Eugenics War and the Third World War) amuses Q to no end as it should.
 
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Jefferson_sl

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Lusiphur_sl said:
Still slogging through Season 2 of DS9 (ep 16 now). You fuckers better be right that it gets good at some point. Right now, I am just skipping through the episodes in 10 min chunks and not missing a damn thing. Utterly predictable stuff
frown.png
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<wince>...... lots of cool character development in those early seasons but they are hard to appreciate until after the series grabs you and you actually begin to like the cast. Most of the stuff you are missing pertains to the political climates and intrigue that drive the show and make Bajor, Cardassia and Ferenginar far more interesting than Kronos, Vulcan or Romulus. Seriously I have a more detailed understanding of life on Ferenginar than whatever the hell Vulcans do all day (meditate and feel superior?).

Jeff Combs is the gift that keeps on giving.
 
iannis

iannis

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Jefferson_sl said:
Or looking at it from another perspective such as that of Q; Q showed the crew just how outmatched they still are. Most of Q's interference has turned out to be fairly benevolent though he does tend to cater to his own amusement while guiding the fledgling race and he does tend to be careless as to how his actions affect those he considers inferior because they are lucky he bothered to acknowledge their existence at all let alone warn them of the dangers they invite home through their exploration. The fact that Humanity claims to have overcome it's own brutality despite having had two recent wars that nearly destroyed the species (Eugenics War and the Third World War) amuses Q to no end as it should.
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Yeah, you can view it that way. They tried pretty hard to spin Q that way, and there's a lot of support in his stories for it. I just utterly reject Q in the role of "Benevolent Dictator". It's so dumb. It's so so dumb. But yeah, that probably is what Roddenbery meant with the character.

You forgot that vulcans wear brown robes like monks when they're at home. So it's meditate, feel superior, andstyle it like it's 1326.

I bet they chant and hit themselves on the head with vulcan bibles.
 
TomServo

TomServo

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Nah flagelate themselves so pon far only occurs as often as it does, otherwise the race would of hate fucked itself to death.
 
Siliconemelons

Siliconemelons

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I thought Q basically brought the borg to the federation, by tossing the enterprise over there the borg are like "oh shinys we must get" and that's what started it all as the borg would still be putsing around the other quadrent not giving 2 shits about the federation.
 
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Osiris The Everliving_sl

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Lusiphur_sl said:
Still slogging through Season 2 of DS9 (ep 16 now). You fuckers better be right that it gets good at some point. Right now, I am just skipping through the episodes in 10 min chunks and not missing a damn thing. Utterly predictable stuff
frown.png
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Yeah only a few episodes really stood out for me , and still hated Kira from the times i watched it when it was airing and when i rewatched the series a few months back. Though i really loved the episode with Sisko having that vision of being a writer , that was fantastic.
 
Jait

Jait

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xadion_sl said:
I thought Q basically brought the borg to the federation, by tossing the enterprise over there the borg are like "oh shinys we must get" and that's what started it all as the borg would still be putsing around the other quadrent not giving 2 shits about the federation.
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Perfectly valid, but a lot of folks (myself included) think Q was the self appointed Protector of Humanity. The Federation was becoming indolent and weak, and any number of enemies that were coming would have defeated them had Q not pushed the Federation out of their coma. Beyond that there is always the finale which does a pretty good job of spelling out Q's true motives.
 
Dyvim

Dyvim

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Jait_sl said:
Perfectly valid, but a lot of folks (myself included) think Q was the self appointed Protector of Humanity. The Federation was becoming indolent and weak, and any number of enemies that were coming would have defeated them had Q not pushed the Federation out of their coma. Beyond that there is always the finale which does a pretty good job of spelling out Q's true motives.
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Yes the series finale shows his true intension finally, but its also valid to point out - and he even said so - he wanted to accelerate things (not just the ship) by dropping it into borg space. He basically accelerates both civilisations and is prolly quite eager to see how it will turn out, cause hes bored to death at that point but isnt allowed to die. Just as a human would like to see two race of insects (ants) clash.
 
Jait

Jait

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Except that in that episode Q harps on and on about "You are not ready.". The entire point of the episode is to get Picard to drop his innocent arrogance and admit that, not to Q really, but himself...we aren't as prepared as we think we are. Once he does, Q saves them. The episode ends with Q very seriously telling Picard, "They are coming." And Picard verbally speculating that Q may have been trying to help them all along by giving them a sneak peak of what's ahead.

The finale just beats you over the head with it.
 
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