Star Wars : Rogue One

I think the real question is which is better, Rogue One or the chinese translation dubbed Revenge of the SIth. Which is one of the greatest Star Wars edits ever

BoozeCube said:

The reason people are critical is because they actually like starwars and would like to see decent movies made from it. They have all the source material in the world to make decent stories out of. Could you imagine a show like Game of Thrones when every character is some monotone piece of shit with no emotional development what so ever. The reason people hated King Geoffrey is because they took the time to build the character and make the shit he did meaningul. In Rouge one it was some stupid teen pop cunt who nobody cares about, plus some best friend father figure who dies in 3 seconds then female who gives a fuck decides he is into the rebel thing so lets go grab a thing.. Really the movie sucked shit not because it was Starwars and not even because of the actors. It sucks giant dicks because shitty writing and a hack director.

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What is all of this source material you're talking about? The Legends (former EU) stuff? I've read virtually none of that or played any of the games so I can't comment on how valuable it is as potential source material for new movies but I do know that one of the issues with a good bit of it is that it's written around The Big 3 characters. You get into the same issue with recasting them that the Solo movie is going to have and it would continue to overly cling to the Skywalkers/Solos, which I personally would like to see them move beyond.

As for your example of good character development you're comparing a 2+ hour movie to a television show that had 30+ hours to work with. And you talk about monotone characters but cite a completely single note, some would even say cliched, example from that show. Joffrey had no depth as a character and his development consisted of showing an empowered spoiled brat pulling the wings off of flies. Over and over again.

Not to say that isn't effective at making viewers love hating a character because it is, but it's not some grand example of great character development. That's just a incredibly easy character to set up in that format. Which goes back to my earlier point about the types of characters they tried to present in R1. They're not easy to effectively set up in a one off movie, especially one that isn't very narrowly focused on them. Add in the fact that it was an entire ensemble of new characters, trying to show some of the internal power struggles within the Empire, add some complexity to the methods and motivations within the Rebellion, and tie in some large scale action pieces that are expected in a Star Wars movie. You end up with trying to do too much with too little screen time.

I think Edwards and Gilroy did a pretty good job trying to accomplish a nearly impossible task. If anything the movie might have actually benefited from a more hackish director or writer, who would have used more standard issue types of characters that feel more familiar right out of the box.

TJT said:

The Star Destroyer models they used were absolutely spectacular. I am pretty sure they were using miniatures there again and not CGI as you could make out so much detail on them. Really good shit.

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They were full CGI. No models were used in the shots themselves but the original models used in the OT were recreated, component by component, and reassembled as CG models. I linked a video a couple of pages back that showed how it was done, including how the original models were made.

TJT said:

Also I didn't get why the Rebel Alliance was all, "may the force be with you" and shit. I don't remember them being full on Jedi like that.

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General Dodonna said it at the end of the briefing for the attack on the Death Star in ANH. Ackbar also said it in Jedi.

But it is something they've been trying to expand on in the more recent material. People who believe in the force as an actual influence in the grand scheme of things but aren't actually force sensitives themselves.

TJT said:

Ah, well they looked really good!

Also I didn't get why the Rebel Alliance was all, "may the force be with you" and shit. I don't remember them being full on Jedi like that.

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Well, given that R1 is a prequel, it considers the previous prequels canon, and as such, those guys probably were already alive and kicking when the Galaxy was essentially run (or at least inter-galactically policed) by Jedi left and right.

Big Phoenix said:

they retconned the bothans!

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Many Bothans gave their lives to discover the 2nd Death Star in ROTJ.

Angelwatch said:

Many Bothans gave their lives to discover the 2nd Death Star in ROTJ.

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Every time someone makes that mistake, another Bothan dies. They've either gone extinct or are on the verge of it at this point.

Still plenty of real continuity errors without killing any Bothans. One example:

Darth Vader in Star Wars (1977) "Don’t play games with me, Your Highness. You weren’t on any mercy mission this time. You passed directly through a restricted system. Several transmissions were beamed to this ship by Rebel spies. I want to know what happened to the plans they sent you."

• Tantive IV did not just "pass through".
• Scarif a "restricted system" .. ok, I guess that can get a pass.
• Transmissions beamed directly to the Tantive? Clearly not true. Transmission was "beamed" to the Profundity and carried to the Tantive IV by Rebel Solders with a mass-murdering Vader himself hot on their heels. Ironically, the arguably single coolest scene of R1 (Vader unleashed) is also one of the poorest and worst-written as far as continuity goes.

Another one:

Commander Tagge: Until this battle station is fully operational we are vulnerable. The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped. They’re more dangerous than you realize.

I suppose making the Death Star in R1 not truly destroy another planet kept the "we're testing it the first time on Alderaa" thing somewhat intact, but few Imperial Officers in R1 seem to consider the Death Star especially vulnerable. In some ways, it also contradicts the whole R1 Galen Erso story-arc of needing to introduce a purposeful weakness into the Death Star, if the Death Star clearly was described as highly vulnerable to Rebel Attacks in ANH, and the eventual Torpedo/Trench-run thing arguably only exploiting one of possibly hundreds of weaknesses of a prototype weapon.

You're assuming the beamed transmissions which Vader mentions are the Death Star plans. They could have just been rendezvous communications.

You're also assuming 'vulnerable' means 'I'm worried the Death Star will be totally destroyed'. It could mean 'I'm worried the Death Star will be heavily damaged because most of the surface defences aren't operational yet. Any more delays and Lord Vader is gonna force choke my nutsack.'

Royal said:

I really liked the first one he did but didn't like the second one. I only have a passing familiarity with the original TV series but I've seen most of the original cast movies (only liked the first couple of those). I never got into the Next Gen stuff or the other series that followed.

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Grew up on the original and later TNG. Can't forget the animated series. Watched every movie up until Insurrection. Pretty sure I've seen parts of Nemesis but not the whole thing. Always been a bigger Wars fan, but I know my Trek.

It's fun and looked good but there's room for improvement. Can't comment on Beyond. Pt 1 was better than Into Darkness. There were too many things I disliked, all to be expected from a large franchise. Bit of a lack of Star Trekness, which TFA did not suffer from. Mostly it's the alternate universe plot/two Spocks. A barefaced excuse to get Nimoy on board and terrible artifice. Either restart the films or don't. Instead the writers could not commit past an attempt at appeasing trekkies by not erasing the timeline. It was handled fairly well but they should've done better than the clever 'reboot whilst not a reboot' device.

Caliane said:

Just to be clear, you do know that Silmarillion exists right? No child abuse, but Tolkien did write a story that included Saurons origin, and betrayal into evil, and following Melkor.

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etchazz said:

like doing a prequel to The LOTR where Tolkien writes a story where Sauron was abused as a child and that's what lead him to becoming so evil.

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Here let me find that for you.

Zweischneid said:

Still plenty of real continuity errors without killing any Bothans. One example:

"You passed directly through a restricted system."

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This line is not in the movie.

• Transmissions beamed directly to the Tantive? Clearly not true. Transmission was "beamed" to the Profundity and carried to the Tantive IV by Rebel Solders with a mass-murdering Vader himself hot on their heels. Ironically, the arguably single coolest scene of R1 (Vader unleashed) is also one of the poorest and worst-written as far as continuity goes.

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Clearly not true? They could have been receiving plenty of other transmissions. We don't know that Vader knew he was literally chasing the Death Star plans. He was cutting his was through armed rebels who were shooting at him.

Another one:

Commander Tagge: Until this battle station is fully operational we are vulnerable. The Rebel Alliance is too well equipped. They’re more dangerous than you realize.

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And? This was clearly a dick-measuring contest between Tagge and Motti. The former was skeptical of the Death Star's purpose to begin with. Motti threw back that it was Tagge's star fleet that was vulnerable, not the Death Star.

It helps to know the continuity before bitching about the continuity.

I do have to say, the scroll for Ep4 is more meaningful with R1

"It is a period of civil war. Rebel spaceships, striking from a hidden base, have won their first victory against the evil Galactic Empire. During the battle, Rebel spies managed to steal secret plans to the Empire’s ultimate weapon, the DEATH STAR, an armored space station with enough power to destroy an entire planet. Pursued by the Empire’s sinister agents, Princess Leia races home aboard her starship, custodian of the stolen plans that can save her people and restore freedom to the galaxy…."

Xadion said:

I do have to say, the scroll for Ep4 is more meaningful with R1

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There's that and when you go from the close of R1 right into the beginning of ANH, it makes it feel like an actual episode of weekly series. They said they were going to do the same thing for Ep VIII (having it pick up right where VII ended) a while back and I really didn't think much of it at the time, but having seen how well it works with R1 to ANH, I'm glad they're going that route.

Ooh, maybe that means VIII will be an actual good movie too then!